Episode 5

Tarot, Gender and A Queer Rebel Who Had No Chill with Lex Ritchie

Published on: 1st June, 2023

Join Lex Ritchie and me as we talk, Tarot, Mid-Western delicacies and a queer baddie who had no chill.

0:00- Interview with Lex Ritchie

14:23-Dish of the Week

18:07- Tea Time: Tarot and Gender

31:51 The Life and Times of Julie d'Aubigny

Lex Ritchie (they/them) is a facilitator of liminal experiences. Through folk magic, spirit work and tarot they help spiritual rebels, academic witches, and mystical revolutionaries go beyond the conventional, learn to trust their own intuition, and make their own path through the magical realm. Through divination, meditation, and education it is their mission to help folks connect to their own wisdom and learn to be in conversation with the beyond so they can be their own guides to mystical exploration!

@thelexritchie. on Instagram

@thelexritchie on Twitter

Lex's Website

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Ashley Oppon

Copyright 2024 Ashley Oppon

Transcript
Ashley:

welcome to Dine With the Divine.

Ashley:

I'm your host, Ashley, and together we'll talk about, the mystical, the

Ashley:

magical, and everything in between.

Ashley:

So on today's tarot, today's tarot, today's episode, we're gonna talk

Ashley:

about tarot, and then we're also gonna tell a story of a really.

Ashley:

Cool, bisexual, batty.

Ashley:

So welcome everybody.

Ashley:

So excited for another week.

Ashley:

I hope everybody's having a great week.

Ashley:

And if you're not, I hope your week gets better.

Ashley:

And today we have a really fantastic guest.

Ashley:

It's one of those people that you see on the internet and you're like, I

Ashley:

don't know this person, but I wanna know this person cuz they're very cool.

Ashley:

So we have.

Ashley:

Lex, Richie, am I saying your last name right?

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Okay, Richie.

Ashley:

They're a facilitator of liminal experience is through folk

Ashley:

magic, spirit work, and tarot.

Ashley:

They help spiritual rebels, academic witches, and mystical

Ashley:

revolutionaries go beyond the conventional learn to trust their own

Ashley:

intuition and make their own path.

Ashley:

Through the magical realm, through divination meditation and education.

Ashley:

Oh, I love that.

Ashley:

It all sounds so good.

Ashley:

Together, it's their mission to help folks connect to their own wisdom

Ashley:

and learn to be in conversation with the beyond, so that they can be their

Ashley:

own guys to a mystical exploration.

Ashley:

Hi, Lex.

Ashley:

How are you?

Ashley:

Hi.

Lex:

I'm doing well.

Lex:

I've.

Lex:

Planted my garden.

Lex:

I went for a walk.

Lex:

It's been a, it's been a good day of connecting to nature.

Ashley:

So, yeah.

Ashley:

Yeah, I feel like it should be mandatory for everybody to like a lot of people are

Ashley:

so inside all day cuz of work and things.

Ashley:

Like, everyone has to go outside for an hour, like, you know,

Ashley:

hopefully the weather depending, and just give yourself a minute.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

We all need a minute.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

Really like, I just, I'm so grateful cuz like I'm chronically ill,

Lex:

so , I haven't always been able to like, spend so much time outside.

Lex:

Mm.

Lex:

And like now that I'm no longer like in a flare and I have more energy,

Lex:

it's like, oh my God, I, I love this.

Lex:

Like, it's

Ashley:

the best.

Ashley:

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that, that you're having such a good day.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

So.

Ashley:

I wanna talk about you and I wanna know how did you first get into, and we're

Ashley:

gonna talk a lot about taro later.

Ashley:

So obviously this is part of your story, but how did you get into

Ashley:

taro and all this stuff folk magic, how, how did it all start for you?

Ashley:

Yeah, so

Lex:

I.

Lex:

Can't tell this story without being like, I learned tarot as

Lex:

a 12 year old, like as a kid.

Lex:

And I grew up in an Italian American community where there

Lex:

was a lot of superstition and folk magic was around growing up.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

But that also makes me sound like, ah, I've been like practicing this

Lex:

forever and I'm like a hereditary witch.

Lex:

That's not what this is either.

Lex:

So like, these, these were things that were around, but it was all very hush

Lex:

hush and very much like, The older generation who like believed in this stuff

Lex:

or knew these things, didn't necessarily like really wanna pass it down.

Lex:

Like there was a big focus on like assimilating into like the modern world.

Lex:

And so I saw those things, but I didn't necessarily like learn them as a kid.

Lex:

And also as a kid I was very contrarian.

Lex:

And so I.

Lex:

I was an atheist child.

Lex:

I was, I was not brought up in a, in a religion.

Lex:

My, my, I was not baptized as a kid.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Like my parents were very big on like, figure it out, explore and,

Lex:

you know, make your own decisions.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

And so , I.

Lex:

Was allowed to go to church.

Lex:

We didn't go to church as a family.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

But like going to vacation Bible school and stuff.

Lex:

And so like, but I didn't, bel I chose very early on was like, I

Lex:

don't, I don't know about all this.

Lex:

I'm, I'm a skeptical child.

Lex:

Which is good.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

So it wasn't until I was in graduate school studying engineering and

Lex:

I was like, Burnt the fuck out.

Lex:

Mm.

Lex:

I'm like, this is not, I did all the things.

Lex:

It's not working.

Lex:

Mm.

Lex:

What, what is there?

Lex:

You know?

Lex:

So like, in the same way that when I was a kid, I got to experiment and be

Lex:

like this thing that everybody else believes, like, actually, no, thank you.

Lex:

Then when I was in grad school studying science, I was like, this thing that

Lex:

everyone thinks is, is bullshit.

Lex:

I'm gonna try that.

Lex:

And, but it was also like this really nice, like kind of full circle moment

Lex:

of like, when I, I grew up in like this small town working class community and

Lex:

in grad school I was in a very affluent area very far from where I grew up.

Lex:

And it was very much like I.

Lex:

I'm choosing these things over this thing that I was told I wanted.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Mm.

Ashley:

Oh my gosh.

Ashley:

So that's the thing, when I went to college, I, I went away

Ashley:

and I kind of grew up in like a very middle to lower class area.

Ashley:

And so when I left and went to college, everybody I met, like their

Ashley:

parents were like sending them money.

Ashley:

And I was like, Your parents sending money?

Ashley:

Like, not like, I was like, how like my, I was like, like I

Ashley:

was the only one who had a job.

Ashley:

Like everyone else was just like, so I was like so weird and I think

Ashley:

I kind of, I, I feel like I have similarities to your story when I

Ashley:

was growing up, like we had a lot of.

Ashley:

Mystical stuff like my parents talk about, or especially my dad, but it was

Ashley:

kind of like, yeah, but it's bullshit.

Ashley:

And I was like, yeah, but you're telling me all these stories and

Ashley:

all these things happen to you, so it can't really be whatever.

Ashley:

So then, yeah, and then I like went through all this stuff

Ashley:

and then I went to school.

Ashley:

And I went away to school and I was away from like, everything.

Ashley:

I, I wasn't even that far.

Ashley:

Like I'm not gonna act like I went across the country.

Ashley:

I was an hour away from my home, but I was not with my regular people.

Ashley:

You know, I was with these people who were very kind and nice, but

Ashley:

like, all, like, their families were like way better off than mine.

Ashley:

And , it, I felt weird and I went through, like I went to a, like a

Ashley:

bad place, like of depression stuff, but when I came out of it I was like,

Ashley:

nah, there's something going on.

Ashley:

And it's weird.

Ashley:

I like had a weird relationship with everything when I was younger, but I

Ashley:

got like really into it when I came out.

Ashley:

Cause I was like, I don't know.

Ashley:

Like you said, it's like I'm doing everything they told me

Ashley:

to do and I don't feel good.

Ashley:

Like I must fix this.

Lex:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lex:

It's sort of like there's this Oh, now I'm blanking on the song.

Lex:

But there's this Tom Wait song about how you don't, you never see the

Lex:

sunrise until something, but it's like, it's this, it's this emotion.

Lex:

I'm, I get it.

Lex:

I'll have, yeah.

Lex:

It's this feeling of you, you can't appreciate where

Lex:

you've been until you leave.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

And, and yeah, and it was really like, It really pushed me to like, hone my values

Lex:

and think like, what actually do I want?

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Because, and that, that's something that's really big for me in my

Lex:

magical work is like values.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Because like, in my opinion, like you better believe that like

Lex:

Christians, like ch, like powerful Christian people are using magic.

Lex:

They might not call it that.

Lex:

Hello?

Lex:

I know, but like, like, yeah.

Lex:

And so magic itself is, is like, Magic is a technology.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

And it is neutral.

Lex:

All like, all technologies are like creations.

Lex:

They're neutral.

Lex:

And so you need the values with you pursuing magic or

Lex:

spirituality without like your own personal values to ground it.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

That can get messy and, and lead you into dangerous, you know, conservative

Lex:

and or fascist territory real fast.

Ashley:

Oh my gosh, that's so, that's so true.

Ashley:

And first of all, I love that you said like magic's like a technology, first

Ashley:

of all, I love your science brain.

Ashley:

I see it and it's so cool.

Ashley:

I just, my best friend is an engineer too, and he says stuff to me like

Ashley:

in school, I, he used to do some of my homework cuz I can't do math.

Ashley:

So like, but he would like tell me that stuff and I just like, I'm just,

Ashley:

I don't know what he's talking about.

Ashley:

I don't understand it, but I'm just in awe of how all.

Ashley:

You, science people, your mind works.

Ashley:

It's so cool.

Ashley:

So I just wanna say that, but you're so right.

Ashley:

It's neutral.

Ashley:

It is a thing.

Ashley:

Magic is just this thing that we can bend and mold.

Ashley:

And I read a long time ago when I was having a, like my magical

Ashley:

experiences, but then also, you know, people in my family being

Ashley:

like, oh God, she's gonna go to hell.

Ashley:

So I had this thing, but I remember reading , Spells are just like prayers.

Ashley:

It's the same thing, like it's just use props sometimes or herbs or whatever.

Ashley:

But , people use herbs when they do prayers and Christians and they use wine

Ashley:

and they drink, you know, imaginary blood.

Ashley:

Come on now.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Like, yeah.

Ashley:

I mean,

Lex:

like, as, as somebody who is, who has a full Catholic practice, right?

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Like I'm, my, my family background, I'm Italian American, like

Lex:

broader family is Catholic.

Lex:

I have, I have a full Catholic practice.

Lex:

I don't believe in, in the Christian God.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

But like praying the rosary still

Ashley:

works.

Ashley:

I'm saying like I was talking the other day cuz like, so I.

Ashley:

My, my mom's son, Dave Ventis, so like, but she just kind of is Christian

Ashley:

now cause there was a lot of rules.

Ashley:

So then my dad, but my dad is Catholic and I used to go to church with him and I

Ashley:

got baptized and all that kind of stuff.

Ashley:

When I was going through.

Ashley:

I was like, I need this.

Ashley:

So anyway, it's fine.

Ashley:

I love Jesus.

Ashley:

We're cool.

Ashley:

But I.

Ashley:

I remember I went to this retreat cuz one of my best friends, she's pretty Catholic.

Ashley:

She's like a seven on the Catholic scale.

Ashley:

I always say she's very liberal though, so I love her.

Ashley:

Love you so much, anyway so we went to this like youth thing

Ashley:

when we were teenagers and.

Ashley:

We prayed the rosary.

Ashley:

First of all, it took so long.

Ashley:

I was like, oh my God, I don't even think we stayed.

Ashley:

Did you do

Lex:

like all like the 150 repetitions or whatever?

Ashley:

Something like we got like halfway through it and I looked

Ashley:

at her, I was like, we gotta go.

Ashley:

We were literally like on our knees, like I'm like 14 years

Ashley:

old and I'm like, Broke my knees.

Ashley:

I was like, she's like, I know, I know.

Ashley:

We gotta, we gotta get outta here.

Ashley:

So we did.

Ashley:

But like, but all those prayers and different things, those are special and

Ashley:

they invoke something and that's why you have prayers for certain things.

Ashley:

Like you pray to this or you make this certain prayer when

Ashley:

you're looking for something.

Ashley:

People who wanna get pregnant see this certain prayer when

Ashley:

they're trying to get pregnant.

Ashley:

All different kinds of stuff.

Ashley:

So it's like the same.

Ashley:

Thing.

Ashley:

And like you're saying, without those values, a man like magic itself,

Ashley:

like you said about the neutrality, it's like it's all about intention.

Ashley:

So if you have intentions that are quote unquote good or positive, or whatever word

Ashley:

you wanna use, if anything will be okay.

Ashley:

But when you start using it to say, well, I'm better than somebody,

Ashley:

or This is the way, and this is.

Ashley:

Then, like you said, weird stuff starts to happen.

Ashley:

And I've recently gotten into this, like, I know it's not necessarily magical, but

Ashley:

like crunchy to like, what do you call it, just like a alt-right pipeline thing

Ashley:

that I've been investigating a lot about.

Ashley:

Yeah, yeah.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

And that is what, and like I didn't think about it before, and

Ashley:

then I watched like seven TikTok videos and I was like, oh my God.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

And I mean, I'm, I'm sort of in the middle of like a big research project on this.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Oh, okay.

Lex:

So this is like my pet interest, not specifically the

Lex:

new Age to AltRight Pipeline.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

But like the fact that the new age to AltRight pipeline is not new.

Lex:

It's not something that we should be like, oh my gosh, this

Lex:

is a weird, modern phenomenon.

Lex:

Like the he, so the new age is like rooted in like Helena Blavatsky, right?

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Helena Blavatsky.

Lex:

Her whole belief system operated around like the great white brotherhood and

Lex:

the idea of like race, memory and like one race is meant to help bring

Lex:

all the other races to transcendence.

Lex:

Like if this sounds like weird eugenic spirituality, that's because it is.

Lex:

And then, and then people more racist than Helena Blavatsky within her own

Lex:

Organization, like created splinter organizations that collaborated with

Lex:

the Nazis, like, yeah, this is, I just found this out recently too.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

So not new things.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

We should not be surprised that this is a modern phenomenon and like, I don't

Lex:

consider myself particularly new agey.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

But the new age was so big.

Lex:

And like it's because of the new age that we can have the

Lex:

modern spirituality movement.

Lex:

And so I think like regardless of whether or not you're a new wager, like this is

Lex:

our responsibility to grapple with, you

Ashley:

know?

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

100%.

Ashley:

Even stuff like.

Ashley:

I think about a lot and like I know everybody has different views on this, so

Ashley:

I'm not trying to be like controversial or anything, but like yoga and just like

Ashley:

the practice and how it's kind of, I don't wanna sound rude, but like how it's

Ashley:

kind of been copted by like these very like conservative white women, you know?

Ashley:

And it's like, now it's like these are the people who you go to for yoga.

Ashley:

And I'm like, really?

Ashley:

Like, cuz I thought this was from India.

Ashley:

I don't know.

Ashley:

You know?

Ashley:

But it's just so weird to me that I'm like, Are we never gonna

Ashley:

ever talk about that ever again.

Ashley:

We're just gonna act okay.

Ashley:

I guess I'll just shut up.

Ashley:

You know, it's like, is there certain things it's like, I guess sometimes

Ashley:

like people have just accepted like, oh well this is just now,

Ashley:

and I'm like, I don't know guys.

Ashley:

I don't, I don't think it is like, I think there's a lot more to it, but

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

Like if this has been going on for so long, like how it just is how it is.

Lex:

We can't reckon with this.

Lex:

Like No, actually we can and we should like,

Ashley:

yeah, we should have maybe one conversation about it at some point.

Ashley:

It's so funny.

Ashley:

Well that was cool and I wanted, so the next thing I kind of wanted to

Ashley:

get into with you, hold on, let me look at what I wrote down so that

Ashley:

I don't get mixed up cuz I will.

Ashley:

Oh, okay.

Ashley:

The next thing we're gonna talk about is our dish of the week.

Ashley:

That's what we'll do.

Ashley:

So you are from like the Midwest, correct?

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

So I picked a Midwestern dish, and that's what we're gonna talk about.

Ashley:

All right.

Ashley:

So I found, I found about, out about something called Skyline Chili.

Ashley:

Have you heard of Skyline Chili?

Ashley:

Yes.

Lex:

Skyline.

Lex:

That's like specifically an Ohio thing too.

Lex:

Oh, okay.

Lex:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

Alright.

Ashley:

I was like, I don't know what this is.

Ashley:

So it's apparently served with spaghetti noodles.

Ashley:

I said, that's cool.

Ashley:

And it comes from like I guess there is a restaurant in

Ashley:

Cincinnati called Skyling Chili.

Ashley:

And they serve, like, the people I think who run the restaurant

Ashley:

have have a Greek background.

Ashley:

So they make this chili that's more like, let me see.

Ashley:

I think they said it's a little bit.

Ashley:

Like savory.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

It's kind of like a, it's not undifferent from like, if you had a

Lex:

really, really meaty, like red sauce.

Lex:

Okay.

Lex:

But it's like, it's got the body of like a red sauce.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

But then it's a chili.

Lex:

Okay.

Lex:

It's not, it doesn't ha like the flavoring profile is different.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

Got it.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

It says here that ingredients include ground beef, min's,

Ashley:

garlic, and chopped onions.

Ashley:

Beef stock, tomato sauce like you talk about tomato sauce, chili powder,

Ashley:

apple CI vinegar, Worcestershire sauce, unsweetened cocoa powder.

Ashley:

Okay, well, at least in this recipe, this might not be the original

Ashley:

last thing, and then they use.

Ashley:

Well, these, I looks like it's optional, but you can use cinnamon,

Ashley:

cumin, all spice clothes, cayenne pepper, and some salt, obviously.

Ashley:

Got you.

Ashley:

Some salt.

Ashley:

And you can put this on a hotdog.

Ashley:

Sounds like you can put, this is all sorts of different ways that you

Ashley:

can put according to this recipe.

Ashley:

You and I'll, I'll post this in the show notes, so if people

Ashley:

wanna try to make it go ahead.

Ashley:

It sounds, sounds interesting.

Ashley:

Yeah, I'll definitely try

Lex:

that one day.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

And if you get the, if you get the actual Skyline chili, you can get this

Lex:

like, Yes, you can get it with like a whole bunch of cheese on top and

Lex:

like a bunch of add-ons and stuff.

Lex:

It's, I didn't, so I grew up on the eastern side of the state of Ohio.

Lex:

We don't have skylines on that side of the state.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

So it wasn't until I moved out to the western part of the state to go to college

Lex:

that I di like learned about skyline.

Lex:

Mm.

Lex:

And I was also like, Ew, what the fuck?

Lex:

But it's actually like, not, it's, you know, like, cuz if you, if you've

Lex:

ever had like chili with rice mm-hmm.

Lex:

Same idea.

Lex:

Okay.

Lex:

But spaghetti.

Ashley:

That's

Lex:

fine.

Lex:

That's weird, but like, it's a meal.

Lex:

It's, and it's fine.

Lex:

It tastes fine.

Lex:

Yeah.

Ashley:

It's like, okay.

Ashley:

It's just a different way to eat it.

Ashley:

Look, it's not a problem.

Ashley:

Look, we are all accepting here.

Ashley:

We try different things all the time.

Ashley:

Mm.

Ashley:

And so that's what we're having for our entree.

Ashley:

And then for dessert, we have something called Buckeyes.

Ashley:

These are Oh yeah.

Ashley:

Like peanut butter covered in chocolate.

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

Very simple.

Ashley:

We don't have to go over a recipe.

Ashley:

Just roll up little

Lex:

balls,

Ashley:

dip them in Chocolate.

Ashley:

Delicious.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

It, it looks pretty good.

Ashley:

So Yeah, that's our dish of the week.

Ashley:

I love it.

Ashley:

It sounds very exciting.

Ashley:

Everyone should try it.

Ashley:

I'll put some links so you can, and if you enjoy the show, you

Ashley:

can follow me here on socials.

Ashley:

I'm Dying With The Divine on Instagram and Dine With the Divine on Facebook.

Ashley:

And if you really like the show, you can pause now and then you can like it.

Ashley:

Put five stars.

Ashley:

You can even put a little review if you like, and you can follow

Ashley:

us on Apple Podcast or Spotify, wherever platform you like.

Ashley:

And if you have any questions, comments, episode suggestions, you can always email

Ashley:

me at dying with the divine pod gmail.com.

Ashley:

Okay, that's it.

Ashley:

So now we're gonna get back to where we're talking and talk to L some more anyway,

Ashley:

so you, the other day, I know, I think it was Monday, you have a class that you were

Ashley:

teaching about tarot and gender, correct?

Ashley:

Correct.

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

Love it.

Ashley:

Because, and I was thinking, cuz I was watching a lot of your Instagram

Ashley:

videos and stuff and I was thinking to myself, cuz you talk about how it

Ashley:

really can open things up when you kind of take gender out of it and

Ashley:

kind of read in a non-binary way.

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

And I was really thinking to myself when I started learning, I read from

Ashley:

a book, it was like Tara made Easy and I read all the things and everything.

Ashley:

And I, when I got started to get Older and like better in my practice.

Ashley:

I think it was, and I'm not actually sure if this is true, but I think

Ashley:

it, it was in 78 degrees of wisdom that I read by Rachel Pollock.

Ashley:

By the way, Rachel Pollock recently passed away and she was super sweet.

Ashley:

I actually met her once.

Ashley:

She's told really good jokes.

Ashley:

They were dirty jokes and they were very funny.

Ashley:

Funny.

Ashley:

Yeah, she's a very nice person.

Ashley:

And Restin Power, Rachel Pollock.

Ashley:

But I think in there she wrote about instead of.

Ashley:

Looking at like the court cards as levels of like the king,

Ashley:

the queen, blah, blah, blah.

Ashley:

Looking at them as levels of mastery instead, that's one way, there's multiple

Ashley:

different ways to do it, but I realized that when I started doing that and when

Ashley:

I, the gendered cards in the tarot, when I started looking at them for just

Ashley:

the quality of it, it, like you said, it really did make my readings better.

Ashley:

Because I don't have to sit here and be like, oh, okay, this is about

Ashley:

a guy who maybe has black hair.

Ashley:

I don't know like that.

Ashley:

First of all, it doesn't make sense.

Ashley:

What am I talking about?

Ashley:

Like, like, yeah.

Ashley:

I

Lex:

mean, so I've come around to this, right?

Lex:

Like in talking to like my grandma and like some older people who

Lex:

read taro in that way or who like expect Tara to be read in that way.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

And like I get it on one level of like, In terms of like, if the local

Lex:

cops have it out for you mm-hmm.

Lex:

Or like if your boss is like, hates Italian people or like, you know whatever

Lex:

minority ethnic group you may come from.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Like those are important things.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

You know, like, so I see that and also like, it's not.

Lex:

I would like to ideally use HARO as a tool to like for self-empowerment and

Lex:

to like take as much power back as I can from these systems of oppression.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

And yeah, that's, those things aren't compatible necessarily, so like I get it.

Lex:

And also I prefer to read differently, you know,

Ashley:

so, yes.

Ashley:

And I was thinking about it too cuz I was like certain cultures.

Ashley:

And when I think of it, I think of like, Ramani people mm-hmm.

Ashley:

Read tarot in a fortune telling style.

Ashley:

So in that case, they may use, you know, gender for a specific reason.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

You know?

Lex:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lex:

And I think it's not even like, and in my workshop I went a little bit more into

Lex:

this, but like that, that like reading tarot in like a non-gender specific

Lex:

way and a gender inclusive way is a gateway into like viewing tarot as a, or

Lex:

gender in tarot as like a larger symbol.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

It's not just like the Queens and the Empress and any, like

Lex:

the Nine of Pentacles, any like card that displays a character

Lex:

who's like pretty female looking.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Like that's an image of the divine feminine.

Lex:

It's like, like, no, like the, mm-hmm.

Lex:

The King of Pentacles is a femme man.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

And the King of Pentacles is like, Just every femme who has ever emed like e every

Lex:

single one of them collectively together.

Lex:

And like the force of, I don't know, all the, their long like

Lex:

LAC fingernails, you know?

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

And so it's like there's, there's this, like, there's so many more ways we

Lex:

can re gender into the tarot, but I.

Lex:

But, and like for me, I, and I think what has like, I think that like

Lex:

taking a step back from this like binary gendered system, cuz because

Lex:

gender's so rigid in our society.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

It's so rigid and you have to take that step back and start like,

Lex:

what if I didn't use gender at all?

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

And then you're like, okay, now I can see.

Lex:

How this becomes an important symbol.

Lex:

This is, it's like that thing you have to leave home

Ashley:

mm-hmm.

Ashley:

In order to appreciate what the,

Ashley:

and I, I, I love that cuz there's so many things.

Ashley:

When, especially I think when people learn the tarot at the beginning,

Ashley:

like a lot of us read books or you go on the internet and you're like, oh,

Ashley:

this means this and blah, blah, blah.

Ashley:

But what you're saying is such a.

Ashley:

A good way, like you said, to open things up because it's like you build

Ashley:

a house and then you're like, okay, this is where everything should do.

Ashley:

But it's like if you just bring down the house, you could do whatever you

Ashley:

want when you put it back up because now you've learned how to deconstruct that.

Ashley:

Yep.

Ashley:

And you're like, wait, I could build a house.

Ashley:

Maybe I could build a different if I want.

Ashley:

And yeah.

Ashley:

I see the bigger, like you're saying, the bigger picture

Ashley:

around certain things and like.

Ashley:

You said the, the most femme that ever found That was funny.

Ashley:

But like, and I, it's so funny cuz I'm thinking when you were

Ashley:

saying that I was like, yeah.

Ashley:

And I always think of , The Queen of Swords.

Ashley:

It's like I always thought of the Queen of Swords as like a, a fem

Ashley:

dominatrix, but also they're probably non-binary cuz they're like, whatever.

Ashley:

They're like, I just wanna be who I wanna be.

Ashley:

Like, like my,

Lex:

my gender's a secret.

Lex:

You don't get to know that.

Lex:

Like, yes,

Ashley:

somebody's like, where are you?

Ashley:

And they're like, this is not your business.

Ashley:

So shut up.

Ashley:

I am who I am and they're like, oh, sorry, sorry.

Ashley:

That's definitely like, they don't wanna be bothered.

Ashley:

And I, I think it just ma and it also makes it more, first of all,

Ashley:

it makes it more fun just to think of all the things you just said.

Ashley:

It makes it more way more fun.

Ashley:

And also using it as a tool, cuz that's how, like, I think a lot of

Ashley:

people use it more now than maybe in the past for self-empowerment

Ashley:

and to like, Advice, you know?

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

It makes way more sense when you use it kind of outside of gender

Ashley:

binaries, cuz it's just like, well this is the king of Juans.

Ashley:

This is what this, this energy exudes.

Ashley:

And it's like, okay, you aren't.

Ashley:

Sitting there thinking, well, this is a man, and men are like

Ashley:

this, so this must No, no, no.

Ashley:

It's just take the feeling of what it is and then apply that to

Ashley:

whatever is going on, you know?

Ashley:

You know what I mean?

Ashley:

Yeah.

Lex:

And that's like, basically like that is, that's how you read.

Lex:

Like if you're ever like, how do I read tarot for like, My business.

Lex:

It's like mm-hmm.

Lex:

Take the energy and like think about how that energy manifests in your business or

Lex:

could manifest in your business or, yeah.

Lex:

Like how, what, what are the expressions of this collection of energies that

Lex:

are like embodied in this card?

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

And yeah, it's like that.

Lex:

How it's a, it's a, what's the word?

Lex:

That is a like, kind of general purpose, standard operating procedure for like

Lex:

tarot interpretation, more sciencey.

Lex:

That's like, that's kinda like how I, like, what are, what are my procedures

Lex:

like, that's like what I'm teaching.

Lex:

I'm like, what that, or preparing to teach.

Lex:

I'm like, what are, what, what's my like standard operating

Lex:

procedure that like I've built?

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Because that's what.

Lex:

It's not the inter interpretations that I want to teach.

Lex:

I'm like, I sometimes, you know, sometimes I teach those two because

Lex:

it's, it's good and it's interesting and like people wanna know those things.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

But what I really wanna teach is like, here is the procedure that.

Lex:

Will that you need to know so that you can figure this out yourself.

Ashley:

Yeah, that, I love that because that's, I, I haven't done it

Ashley:

in a while, but I used to teach like an intuitive tarot and I realized

Ashley:

too when I'm watching your videos, I don't even teach about really, I,

Ashley:

I'm gonna get this out right now.

Ashley:

I don't like talking about court cards.

Ashley:

Is stress me out.

Ashley:

They just, in general, court cards are annoying cause they just come up and

Ashley:

like, I think from what I learned in the beginning, I can't get outta my

Ashley:

head that it's like, this is a person.

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

This has to, you know, and I can't like, remove it and it's very annoying.

Ashley:

So when I even try to teach other people, I get stressed.

Ashley:

So I like the rest of the cards instead.

Ashley:

And I, like, I try to teach about, like, numerology behind it, the

Ashley:

symbolism and the actual card instead of, you know, anything else.

Ashley:

Because all that stuff makes it easier to read it intuitively, like, Yeah,

Ashley:

because you, you know, cuz you think about, okay, well this is a number

Ashley:

this, and what does that make me feel?

Ashley:

Or what do I think of when I think like two?

Ashley:

What do people think of when they think two, they think two things

Ashley:

and they're probably together.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

This card and this is the two of.

Ashley:

Cups the easiest part.

Ashley:

These two people, maybe they're gonna make out okay.

Ashley:

People like two cups are people who like to make out.

Ashley:

I don't know.

Ashley:

You know what I mean?

Ashley:

Like, yeah,

Lex:

yeah, yeah.

Lex:

I, the way I, when I like teach my big tarot class, I kind of,

Lex:

I think about tarot as like a valley that has like a bunch of

Lex:

little, like, natural wells, right?

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

Like little divots in the ground that collect rainwater.

Lex:

And then like each card, you go up to the card, the, the well, and you look in

Lex:

it and you're like, scr at the surface of it, and like whatever, meaning

Lex:

like that comes up to the surface.

Lex:

That's, that's the meaning that that card means today, right?

Lex:

Like these are the, each drop of water in this well is a potential

Lex:

meaning of that card, you know?

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

And, and just because.

Lex:

Whatever the book says, the whatever the book says, isn't that well.

Lex:

Mm-hmm.

Lex:

But it's not the end all, be all of what makes up that.

Lex:

Well,

Ashley:

yeah.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Man, you're really coming at me with some good stuff.

Ashley:

Ah, oh man.

Ashley:

Your brain is great.

Ashley:

Good job.

Ashley:

You're doing a great job.

Ashley:

I just want you to know that you're doing great.

Ashley:

You hear that kitten?

Ashley:

I'm

Lex:

doing great.

Lex:

Excuse me.

Lex:

Yelling at me because she's like, you don't normally work.

Lex:

Now.

Lex:

Stop working.

Lex:

Like.

Ashley:

Oh my God.

Ashley:

I have like so I know you knit too, right?

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

Or you crochet?

Ashley:

I knit.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

I learned to knit a couple years ago.

Ashley:

I was forced by my knitting group who they all made these cool things

Ashley:

and, you know, you crochet, you use a lot more yarn than knitting.

Ashley:

So they would make all these cool things.

Ashley:

I was like, I wanna do that.

Ashley:

So then I started knitting.

Ashley:

But the only problem I have with knitting is it takes so long.

Lex:

Yeah, that's the trade off.

Lex:

It's like you use less yarn.

Lex:

Yeah, but

Ashley:

it takes way longer.

Ashley:

Yeah, it takes so long.

Ashley:

I was like, I can crochet a baby hat in two hours.

Ashley:

But if I have to knit a baby hat three days later, I'm like,

Ashley:

I'm done with this baby hat.

Ashley:

This baby's never getting this hat.

Ashley:

I'm so up for this.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

I'm a, I'm a decently fast knitter.

Lex:

Like I'm, I'm, I'm on the, like, maybe high side of the average and like mm-hmm.

Lex:

That's, that's a weakish project for me.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

Like knitting a baby hat in two hours.

Lex:

That's not, that's never gonna happen.

Lex:

Me.

Lex:

Hey, kitten.

Lex:

Yeah, she doesn't, she doesn't like cameras though, so she's

Lex:

probably stay on the floor.

Lex:

That's fine.

Lex:

She's so skeptical of cameras.

Lex:

It's.

Ashley:

It's adorable.

Ashley:

I, if any, I just said awe.

Ashley:

And if anybody in my knitting group heard me, they'd be like, you're a liar.

Ashley:

Cuz I always talk about, they all have cats except me.

Ashley:

And I'm like, you guys are, you're cats.

Ashley:

I can't stay at cats.

Ashley:

I've only ever liked one cat my whole life.

Ashley:

My ex-partners roommate's, cat name was Phoenix, and like cats

Ashley:

really like boxes and stuff.

Ashley:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

One day we bought a box cuz his apartment had no fans, so he was in there all night.

Ashley:

Phoenix would sleep between, like, Phoenix was great, but other

Ashley:

than that I'm afraid of cats.

Ashley:

I'm allergic to some of them too, so I've almost like had anaphylactic

Ashley:

reactions, so that's not great.

Ashley:

But like also, every cat I ever meet, they're always just staring.

Ashley:

Like from a, from a, from a stair.

Ashley:

They're always just looking at, I'm like, what's a problem?

Lex:

They're little creeps.

Lex:

Yeah.

Ashley:

There's so much.

Ashley:

I'm like, can you guys calm down?

Ashley:

God.

Ashley:

Oh God.

Ashley:

Okay, so now we don't have to talk about cats anymore.

Ashley:

I'm sorry for that.

Lex:

No, it's fine.

Lex:

I.

Lex:

I, I appreciate cats as like Sian beings.

Lex:

I think I like cats a lot more now that I've been through my Saturn return Mm.

Lex:

Than I did before.

Lex:

And we got coray, like at the very like tail end of my Saturn return.

Lex:

So like, okay.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

Sh it was, it was the right time for me to get a cat before then.

Lex:

I'm like, I always had cats around, but it was never like a cat person.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

And now I'm like, okay, I can, I get it.

Lex:

I get, I get cats now.

Ashley:

Oh my God, I love it.

Ashley:

Okay, so we talked about taro.

Ashley:

We talked about Buckeyes, and we talked about some interesting kind

Ashley:

of spaghetti sauce, but it's chili.

Ashley:

So now.

Ashley:

We're gonna tell a story.

Ashley:

Is that okay with you?

Ashley:

We good?

Ashley:

We're gonna tell a story about bisexual Batty and since it's, it's, it's may,

Ashley:

but I think this episode's gonna be in Pride Month, so happy pride everybody.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Our first, yay.

Ashley:

Our story will be about this because.

Ashley:

I heard this story a long time ago, and I was like, this is one of the most

Ashley:

wildest, amazing stories, and I think, I don't know if it's in your profile or

Ashley:

somewhere, but you were talking about like radical ancestors and queer ancestors.

Ashley:

I'm like, this, yeah.

Ashley:

This is a rebel, a radical, and a queer woman who we stand for.

Ashley:

I'm like, okay.

Ashley:

Oh, you'll, you'll so, so, I'm so intrigued.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

It's amazing.

Ashley:

All right.

Ashley:

So this there is this woman, okay?

Ashley:

And her name is Julie.

Ashley:

She's French, obviously.

Ashley:

Oh, by the way, I don't speak French.

Ashley:

I am not French.

Ashley:

But I'll do my best.

Ashley:

Her also, her nickname was Lamont Paul.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

I'm probably saying that wrong, but it's okay.

Ashley:

You can look it up yourself.

Ashley:

I'll put links in the, in the show notes.

Ashley:

Anyway, let's start.

Ashley:

So Julie, our friend, she was born in 1673, and her dad was the secretary to

Ashley:

the master of horses for King Louie.

Ashley:

The 14th, and he is also in charge of training all the pages in the castle.

Ashley:

So all the pages we were learning to fight to eventually become

Ashley:

nights and that kind of thing.

Ashley:

Now Julie's dad had a good job at 1673.

Ashley:

It's probably one of the best jobs you can have other than probably

Ashley:

like being a farmer or something.

Ashley:

So the only problem was that Julie's dad loved alcoholic

Ashley:

beverage a little too much.

Ashley:

He was at the bars all the time, and he also loved sex workers.

Ashley:

I mean, it's fine if he was paying them and everybody was consenting,

Ashley:

it's fine, but I'm just saying this was what was going on Now.

Ashley:

Her dad was like, Julie, listen, men are here.

Ashley:

Dogs including me.

Ashley:

Like they're like, and I wanna teach you how to defend yourself

Ashley:

against these crazy people.

Ashley:

So from the eight, from when Julie was little, he started

Ashley:

teaching her how to fence.

Ashley:

And he also educated her.

Ashley:

Since he could read and write, obviously he was a secretary, he started

Ashley:

educating her just as well as the.

Ashley:

Boys in the upper class were getting educated so she could read write.

Ashley:

Julia was smart, like she was smart as a whip.

Ashley:

So then she mastered basically being a swordsman and whatnot.

Ashley:

By the age of 12, she was amazing.

Ashley:

I.

Ashley:

So then, I don't know, we're not gonna think too much about this

Ashley:

cuz it'll make our brains hurt.

Ashley:

But at the age of 14, she started becoming a mistress to her dad's boss.

Ashley:

Kind of gross, whatever.

Ashley:

I don't know what was happening.

Ashley:

I'm not gonna say anything.

Ashley:

It was 16, 1680s at this point.

Ashley:

Like so, so her dad's boss was like, Mr.

Ashley:

Deju, your daughter isn't wild.

Ashley:

We gotta do something about her.

Ashley:

She's out here in the street.

Ashley:

Julie was made for the streets and she didn't care.

Ashley:

So he is like, we gotta do something about this.

Ashley:

So he's like, all right, this is what we're gonna do.

Ashley:

There's this other secretary who works in the castle.

Ashley:

We're gonna have Julie marry him.

Ashley:

So Julie hears about this and she's like, absolutely not.

Ashley:

I'm not doing that.

Ashley:

I don't know who told you I was gonna do that, but they were lying.

Ashley:

So, she got one of her other man friends and she's like, we running away.

Ashley:

So her and this dude run away.

Ashley:

And the way they started making money was that they were doing like sword fights in

Ashley:

different towns and like putting on shows.

Ashley:

And also Julie would sing cuz she was a really, really good singer.

Ashley:

So then, because her man friend had small dick energy, he got mad jealous.

Ashley:

He was like, he's like, you can't be my girlfriend and

Ashley:

be better at fencing than me.

Ashley:

And she's like, well then screw you.

Ashley:

I don't even wanna talk to you anymore.

Ashley:

So then she got rid of him and then she's actually like, actually I'm

Ashley:

only dating women from now on because I'm actually tired of all this.

Ashley:

Like, I'm not having any luck here, so I'm going with women.

Ashley:

No problem.

Ashley:

So then the thing is too, everybody should know that Julie was cute.

Ashley:

Like everybody thought Julie was cute, so she got whatever she

Ashley:

wanted and whomever she wanted.

Ashley:

All right.

Ashley:

Anyway, so she was dressing.

Ashley:

Sometimes Immor fun, more feminine fashion.

Ashley:

Sometimes they're more masculine fashion.

Ashley:

So one time she was walking down the street in some.

Ashley:

Julie's crazy.

Ashley:

So I was like, you're a dude.

Ashley:

You're definitely a dude.

Ashley:

And she's like, I'm not.

Ashley:

And he's like, you are.

Ashley:

And she's like, okay, hold on.

Ashley:

And then she ripped open her shirt.

Ashley:

She's like, I'm not a dude.

Ashley:

And he's like,

Ashley:

Julie didn't like.

Ashley:

She's like, leave me alone.

Ashley:

I am who I am.

Ashley:

Leave me alone.

Ashley:

So anyway, so now Julie, iconic, iconic Julie is going around all these tiny

Ashley:

French towns, flirting with every young lady she meets, and I'm down.

Ashley:

Julie is for the streets.

Ashley:

I love her so much.

Ashley:

So she starts flirting this long girl, and the girl is into it and

Ashley:

she's like, She's fallen for ju Julia must have been a charmer.

Ashley:

She's fallen for her, right?

Ashley:

And her dad figures this out and her dad's like, this is not cool.

Ashley:

I'm sending you to a convent.

Ashley:

So the girl is like upset and her, dad sends her to live in this comment.

Ashley:

So Julia was like, you know what, I'm just gonna become a nun then and go

Ashley:

bang my girlfriend in this convent.

Ashley:

So, oh my God, that's what she did.

Ashley:

So she goes to this convent.

Ashley:

They're banging, banging, banging all the time.

Ashley:

They're having a great time.

Ashley:

Then Julie's like, actually, I don't even wanna be in this convent anymore.

Ashley:

And this is weird too, but one of the older nuns died, so Julie took that nun's

Ashley:

body, put it in her room, and then set her room on fire and then set the convent on

Ashley:

fire, and her and her girlfriend ran away.

Ashley:

Julie is crazy.

Ashley:

Like I just, when I read this story, I was like, ma'am, what is going on?

Ashley:

Always

Lex:

doing the most.

Ashley:

Like, instead of being like, Hey girlfriend, let's run away.

Ashley:

She's like, let's just burn down this whole building.

Ashley:

I was like, what?

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Not

Lex:

just like, let me just set my room on fire.

Lex:

The whole thing needs to be on fire

Ashley:

and we need to put a mysterious dead body in here.

Ashley:

So Julie decided, okay, I'm gonna burn down this convent.

Ashley:

So she did, and then her and her girlfriend ran away.

Ashley:

But again, because Julie's for the streets, she broke up with her

Ashley:

girlfriend like three months later.

Ashley:

Cause she was like, I'm actually over you now.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

You need somebody who can keep up with me.

Ashley:

Exactly.

Ashley:

She's like, I burnt down comments.

Ashley:

You have to be crazy Like me and a girlfriend was like,

Ashley:

I just wanted to bang you.

Ashley:

I didn't know all this was gonna happen.

Ashley:

This is too much.

Ashley:

So, so by this time, oh, by the way, everybody, Julie is like

Ashley:

19 years old at this point.

Ashley:

, she's, she's pretty young.

Ashley:

So, By this time now Louie the 14th, the king of the whole country, that guy, he

Ashley:

found out that Julie was doing this and he's like, listen, Julie's dad, I like you

Ashley:

and everything, but your daughter actually can't be out here burning down confidence.

Ashley:

Like, like she's all right and everything, but this is crazy.

Ashley:

Enemy of the state.

Ashley:

I know exactly.

Ashley:

She's an actual arsonist.

Ashley:

She can't do this.

Ashley:

Like, so her dad was like, please, please, please, please don't put her in jail.

Ashley:

So the king's like, oh, because I like you so much, I'm not gonna put Julie in jail.

Ashley:

And actually I like, I think the, you'll see later the king, like

Ashley:

Julia lie, he thought she was cool, but he's also like, can you tell

Ashley:

your daughter to calm down please?

Ashley:

So the dad's like 5, 5, 5, 5.

Ashley:

So at this point, Julie went.

Ashley:

Back to Paris, cuz now she burned down a convent, but the king

Ashley:

forgave her so she could go back.

Ashley:

Now it's fine.

Ashley:

She's, she's backing Paris, tearing up the streets as usual.

Ashley:

Now, because she was such a good singer, she also became an opera singer.

Ashley:

So at this time, this is, I feel like Phantom of the Opera days.

Ashley:

I'm probably getting dates wrong, but like, she's basically

Ashley:

like a celebrity at this point.

Ashley:

She was like, She's like the King Kardashian every day.

Ashley:

Like she's walking around, people wanna see her, and people are

Ashley:

constantly talking about her.

Ashley:

And because Julie was out here banging anybody, she wanted to, everybody

Ashley:

was talking and they had something to talk about and they loved it.

Ashley:

They're like, Ooh.

Ashley:

And you know, all those women clutching their pearls, they were like, mm, Julie.

Ashley:

Mm.

Ashley:

I feel like

Lex:

Paris Court gossip, just like.

Lex:

God, there would've been so

Ashley:

much.

Ashley:

Oh my God.

Ashley:

Like they were all whispering and everyone's like, oh my

Ashley:

God, can you believe that?

Ashley:

Julie's banging girls.

Ashley:

And everyone's like, I wanna bang girls.

Ashley:

Like it's fine.

Ashley:

Everyone's sexually pent up, but they're not really, cuz they're all secretly

Ashley:

doing it, but it's not a problem.

Ashley:

Julie's just doing it on the open.

Ashley:

She doesn't care.

Ashley:

And that's why we love her.

Ashley:

Julie didn't have a problem sleeping with who she wanted to sleep with.

Ashley:

That was the other thing.

Ashley:

She was just doing whatever she wanted and we love it.

Ashley:

So there's a couple instances also that happened to her in

Ashley:

Paris that are pretty iconic.

Ashley:

So another opera singer who was just like a notorious shit talker

Ashley:

is always talking crap about people.

Ashley:

But then he started talking about Julie and Julie had no time for this.

Ashley:

So one day Julie heard him talking and she's like, oh, you wanna buck up?

Ashley:

Let's do it.

Ashley:

So he's like, no, no, don't fight me.

Ashley:

And she's like, let's fight.

Ashley:

And he refused.

Ashley:

So she just beat him up anyway, like, She beat.

Ashley:

She beat his ass.

Ashley:

And then later on, oh and she took his snuff box and his watch.

Ashley:

So later on in the week she sees him all bruised up and he's

Ashley:

telling his friends, oh yeah, I got attacked by a group of dudes.

Ashley:

And she's like, oh really?

Ashley:

You got attacked?

Ashley:

That's funny cuz I have your watch in your snuff box cuz I

Ashley:

stole it when I kicked your ass.

Ashley:

And she dropped it.

Ashley:

Mike dropped and left.

Ashley:

Julie, we stand

Lex:

a queen.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

Probably don't pick a fight with an expert

Ashley:

fencer.

Ashley:

Exactly.

Ashley:

Like this was a terrible idea, sir.

Ashley:

Don't know why you thought that was a good idea.

Ashley:

So then another time, this one is hilarious too.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

Another time she's walking down the street just minding her own business, as

Ashley:

she usually was trying to, and this dude starts talking to her and he says to her,

Ashley:

I've listened to your chirping, but now tell me of your plumage, which was like

Ashley:

the equivalent to being like, oh, I've seen like, Does, does the carpet match

Lex:

the curtains?

Lex:

Yes.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Lex, yes.

Ashley:

Is why you're here.

Ashley:

And then, and then, you know, she was like, don't talk to me like that.

Ashley:

Are you crazy?

Ashley:

So she, she got in a sword fight with, I

Lex:

would've just told you if you asked.

Lex:

Yeah.

Lex:

She's like,

Ashley:

respectful.

Ashley:

She's like, have you met me?

Ashley:

I'll tell anybody anything.

Ashley:

I'm Julie.

Ashley:

I don't care.

Ashley:

Like, but you're gonna talk to me crazy.

Ashley:

Now you're trying to pick a fight.

Ashley:

So then, so this guy was with his two friends.

Ashley:

So then she ended up kicking the two friend's ass.

Ashley:

Then she stabbed him, the guy who was talking to her through the shoulder.

Ashley:

So then he like, so then he had to go to the hospital.

Ashley:

So then she felt a little bad about it.

Ashley:

She's like, damn, I really did stop that guy.

Ashley:

That's crazy.

Ashley:

So then she went to the hospital and.

Ashley:

Then she's talking to the guy and she said, you wanna like hook up though?

Ashley:

And he's like, yeah,

Ashley:

they ended up like hooking up for a couple months, but then for the

Ashley:

rest of it, at least I'm hooking up.

Ashley:

But they were friends for her the rest of their lives, so

Ashley:

they just became good friends.

Ashley:

Like, that's nice Julie.

Ashley:

So, so then the other time, The hair was a ball, you know,

Ashley:

really cool ball at the court.

Ashley:

And so she went dressed as a man.

Ashley:

So if she walked in, everyone's like, Julie's at it again.

Ashley:

Like, they're like, look at her.

Ashley:

Those, those pants.

Ashley:

They're like, Julie's in here in pants, everybody.

Ashley:

This is the talk of the town.

Ashley:

So she came in and she was flirting with all the ladies, and the ladies

Ashley:

were loving it, eating it up.

Ashley:

So then , there was three women in particular that she was really flirting

Ashley:

with, and they're suitors or whoever they came with, they were getting mad.

Ashley:

These three dudes.

Ashley:

Then Julie, in a power move, she kissed one of the girls.

Ashley:

Huh?

Ashley:

She kissed her back.

Ashley:

Oh my God.

Ashley:

Oh my God.

Ashley:

So then they were like, oh, oh no.

Ashley:

You're not gonna disrespect us like this, Julie.

Ashley:

So they said, we're all gonna fight you.

Ashley:

She said, no problem.

Ashley:

You think I haven't fought three men before?

Ashley:

She's like, please, this is what I do on a Tuesday.

Lex:

The audacity, I just like love just.

Ashley:

She's amazing.

Ashley:

New icon.

Ashley:

I'm saying this is an icon.

Ashley:

Like this is literally, and I know, like I remember you talking about

Ashley:

like the outlaw, we were talking about archetypes and outlaw archetype.

Ashley:

Julie is outlaw archetype.

Ashley:

This is what we're talking about.

Ashley:

She doesn't care.

Lex:

Can I go, can I go, go add her to my outlaw archetype pin

Ashley:

board, like Julie.

Ashley:

So she's like, so, so these three dudes were like, we're gonna fight you.

Ashley:

She's like, no problem.

Ashley:

She fought them all, some accounts and she killed them.

Ashley:

We don't know.

Ashley:

But some accounts you said, but we

Lex:

do remember that she fought them.

Lex:

So like who was the more important person in

Ashley:

this story?

Ashley:

All we know is that Julie won.

Ashley:

Like we don't know what happened, but she won.

Ashley:

So Julie won.

Ashley:

And apparently and I think maybe she did kill one of, at least, because apparently

Ashley:

Louie the 14th was so entertained by this, he pardoned her on the spot.

Ashley:

He said, this is hilarious.

Ashley:

He said, even if you did kill one of these fools, I'm not gonna put you in prison cuz

Ashley:

this was the best thing I've ever seen.

Ashley:

I was like, this is hilarious.

Ashley:

So then, But then like the heat was on, so I think she did kill

Ashley:

them because the heat was on.

Ashley:

People were like, kind of aga her.

Ashley:

They're like, all right, Julie, we know you were up to antics,

Ashley:

but like, this is a lot.

Ashley:

You can't just kill people.

Ashley:

I'd be out here like kissing girls, and then they fight you and you kill people.

Ashley:

Like that's, it's not about, it's not that serious

Lex:

proportional.

Lex:

It needs to be proportional

Ashley:

all.

Ashley:

Exactly.

Ashley:

Exactly.

Ashley:

Like if you just got like a fist fight, it'd be all right.

Ashley:

But like you killed somebody.

Ashley:

Cause you kissed someone else.

Ashley:

Like, come on, this is a lot.

Ashley:

So then Julie was like, okay, no problem.

Ashley:

Let me get outta Paris for a little bit.

Ashley:

So she went to Brussels and she's chilling in Brussels and she's doing her

Ashley:

acting thing and she's opera singing.

Ashley:

So she started messing with the Electra of Bavaria.

Ashley:

I don't know how high this position is, but that was her new boyfriend.

Ashley:

She started messing with him.

Ashley:

I think she realized, she's like, all right, I'm I gonna, I gotta

Ashley:

stop dating girls for a little bit because I keep getting in trouble.

Ashley:

I'm burning down buildings over women.

Ashley:

Fuck boys don't stab them.

Ashley:

Exactly.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

She's like, I gotta, I think I just gotta take a down a, I'm doing a lot.

Ashley:

Let me just go back to men for a minute cuz I think maybe, oh, I don't know.

Ashley:

Women make me a little too passionate.

Ashley:

So.

Ashley:

Like, so then she started hooking with the Electro Brea.

Ashley:

But then another weird thing that happened, so she was doing a performance,

Ashley:

and I guess into the performance.

Ashley:

Her character is supposed to stab themselves, but she stabbed herself

Ashley:

for real, for dramatic effect.

Ashley:

She's like method acting.

Ashley:

I'm the queen of method acting.

Ashley:

I'm gonna stack myself.

Ashley:

And the guy, the elector Bavaria was like, she is too.

Ashley:

I can't do this.

Ashley:

Like this woman is doing too much now.

Ashley:

Like, I didn't realize, like I thought she was like a bit, you know,

Ashley:

out there, but she's out there, out there and I can't like, like I can't.

Ashley:

He said, oh, no, no, no, no, no more.

Ashley:

So then, so then I guess after this, he went home and the electors rep.

Ashley:

Like came to her and offered her 40,000 Frans to leave the country.

Ashley:

He's like, please just go.

Ashley:

Like, we don't care where you go, but you can't stay here anymore.

Ashley:

Cause like you were out there stabbing yourself and like,

Ashley:

this is just not what people do.

Ashley:

Like you can't do that.

Ashley:

But apparently she kicked him down the stairs.

Ashley:

She said, take your $40,000 and shove it and get outta my house.

Ashley:

Julie, what are we doing?

Ashley:

So then after this, she's like, I guess I gotta get out of Brussels.

Ashley:

So she went back to Harris.

Ashley:

She went back to her home where things had calmed down, and then she just,

Ashley:

she apparently, she married the guy she was supposed to marry in the

Ashley:

beginning, the, the mild mannered clerk.

Ashley:

She married him and then died like something like five years later.

Ashley:

And she was only like 30.

Ashley:

They, oh, some say 33, some say 38, but she was like somewhere in there.

Ashley:

She was young and basically she lived a fever dream and it was amazing.

Ashley:

Like Julie is a definition for a couple things.

Ashley:

Number one, fuck her on to find out definition of Julie.

Ashley:

And also I'm here for a good time, not a long time.

Ashley:

She said, I don't care when I die because I'm acting wild out here.

Ashley:

I'm doing whatever I want.

Ashley:

And you're all gonna see how amazing I am.

Ashley:

And that's the story of Julie De Juvenate.

Ashley:

And We Stand.

Ashley:

We Stand.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

I'm pretty sure Bad

Lex:

Gay did an episode on her.

Lex:

Okay.

Lex:

I, I have a vague memory of it, but probably I love that podcast.

Lex:

So, yeah.

Lex:

Wait,

Ashley:

what's

Lex:

the name of that podcast?

Lex:

Bad Gaze.

Ashley:

Bad Gaze.

Ashley:

Oh, I don't even listened to that.

Lex:

Yeah, it's about, Queer people in history who were not good people.

Ashley:

Okay.

Lex:

It's fascinating and I mean, it's, it's done by two

Lex:

queer people, so it's great.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

It's delightful.

Ashley:

That makes you feel better about it.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Because if two straight people are talking about, I'm like, yeah, no,

Lex:

it's, if if anybody, if, if anyone but two, two hilarious

Lex:

gay men were doing it, like no.

Lex:

But yeah.

Lex:

But two hilarious gay men.

Lex:

Like, yes, please.

Ashley:

Absolutely.

Ashley:

Then I'm definitely gonna listen.

Ashley:

I've already added it to my list.

Ashley:

It's no problem.

Ashley:

I love that.

Ashley:

So that's, yeah.

Ashley:

The story of Julie and she I found this story in a book

Ashley:

that I've talked about before.

Ashley:

It's called BA Rejected Princesses.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

It's kind of cool.

Ashley:

This guy, he wrote of these comics of princesses who.

Ashley:

We're typically women who would not have been princesses and Disney

Ashley:

and stuff because they were just wild or they were doing shit that

Ashley:

people said they shouldn't do.

Ashley:

So it's pretty cool.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Love it.

Ashley:

I love it.

Ashley:

So that's our story for the week, and this brings us kind of to the end.

Ashley:

But before we go, of course, Lex, let us know where we can find you

Ashley:

on the internet, where you wanna be found, anything upcoming that you're

Ashley:

doing that you wanna talk about.

Ashley:

Go ahead before is

Lex:

yours, so you can find me at the l richie.com on Instagram and TikTok

Lex:

sometimes, and Twitter sometimes as the Lex Richie and I offer Tara

Lex:

readings and Ancestor work readings.

Lex:

And you said this is gonna air during Pride month?

Lex:

Probably.

Lex:

So, yeah.

Lex:

I have on my website you can go to like the learn section and I have a workshop

Lex:

called Honoring our Queer Ancestors, which is all about working with queer ancestors.

Ashley:

Awesome.

Ashley:

Oh, that's so cool.

Ashley:

Oh yeah.

Ashley:

You do a lot of ancestral work, which I really, really love.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

And honoring our queer ancestors.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Okay, so now you've heard, so please go sign up for that.

Ashley:

Yeah, this is definitely gonna be out the beginning of June, so go hang out.

Ashley:

Go.

Ashley:

Let's pride month y'all.

Ashley:

Let's do it.

Ashley:

Hi Pride.

Lex:

Yeah, ev evoke a little bit of Julie.

Lex:

You're at this pride

Ashley:

month.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Please be careful when you are invoking Julie.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Like, like said a little bit at a time.

Ashley:

Don't stab people cuz you're kissing their girlfriends.

Ashley:

That's not good.

Ashley:

Maybe kiss their girlfriends if their girlfriends are cool with it.

Ashley:

But don't stab anybody.

Ashley:

Don't get the fights.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Leave the knives at home.

Ashley:

Do kiss people though?

Ashley:

Do kiss people.

Ashley:

Have a good time.

Ashley:

As long as we're all consenting, we're having a great time.

Ashley:

But just like, don't kill anybody.

Ashley:

And I mean, if you do stab somebody through their shoulder and you wanna sleep

Ashley:

with them, that's fine, but maybe don't stab them through their shoulder first.

Ashley:

Like just, you know, have a conversation and then do that.

Ashley:

It's like, do it the, the way we normally do, you know?

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

Let's, let's do that.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

So and one more time, just so you guys all know, my name's Ashley and this

Ashley:

is Dying With, and like I said, you can find me on Instagram, Facebook,

Ashley:

and you can give us a five star rating if you like the podcast and if you

Ashley:

wanna follow me, I'm Sankofa Hs.

Ashley:

So that's s A N K O F A H S on Instagram.

Ashley:

And I'm Sanko Healing Sanctuary and Facebook.

Ashley:

And thank you all for being awesome and being here.

Ashley:

And.

Ashley:

Listening to this story, and thank you Lex for coming.

Ashley:

This was so fun.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Thank you for having me.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Yay.

Ashley:

Okay.

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About the Podcast

Dine with the Divine
A slice of history, a handful of mythology, a dash of magic, warmed by ancestors.
Some of the best stories are told at the dinner table with a delicious meal and good company. Dine with the Divine is a one stop shop if you crave conversations of mythology, magic, history and culture! Once a week, Ashley and a guest honor gods, sages, saints and iconic figures through storytelling, food, and drink. In the words of a Mexican proverb, "Conversation is food for the soul." Pull up a chair and come dine with us!
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About your host

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Ashley Oppon

Ashley is a Shamanic Practitioner who loves to talk mythology, religion and history, especially is it's over brunch.