Episode 3

Shaktiism, Kundalini and A Woman so Fierce They Thought She was A God

Published on: 18th May, 2023

Join Mala D and I as we talk Community food, the intersection between being a mental health practitioner and a spiritual practitioner and much more!

0:00- Interview with Mala D

26:40-Dish of the Week

36:10- Tea Time: Shaktiism and Kundalini Yoga

58:50-The Story of Phoolan Devi

Mala is an Indo-Caribbean, Hindu Spiritual practitioner and Shakta who is devoted to the Goddess. She combines over 20+ years of Mental Health experience as a Licensed Clinical Psychotherapist, Life Coach and Practitioner of the Madrasi and Tantric Hindu traditions. She is a practicing Pujarin (Priestess) that channels as a means of connecting to her higher self to provide guidance and support to others. Her connection to her spiritual guides provides access to ancestors and past lives. Mala has shared this insight and guidance throughout her life with those who seek to work with her.

@clinician_with_a_cauldron on Instagram

Mala 's Website

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Ashley Oppon

Copyright 2024 Ashley Oppon

Transcript
:

Everybody.

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I just wanted to come on really quick before the show starts to let you

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know that you may find that in this episode the audio is a little rough.

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I wanna apologize to you guys and I also wanna apologize to our guest Mala.

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Because I didn't realize how rough the audio was gonna end up being, and it may

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be a little hard to hear her at times.

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It's a little muddled.

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Just know that going forward, our audio's always gonna be much, much better.

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I've worked it out.

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I've got a better system now, and I just want you to know that

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I wanna put out really, really good content for you . But.

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Please enjoy this show.

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Mala was an awesome guest.

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We had some really, really good conversation.

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I learned all about, you know, her culture and it was really awesome.

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So enjoy it.

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But just know that going forward, the audio is gonna be like 10 times better

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and we'll never have this problem again.

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All right, you guys enjoy the show.

Ashley:

okay, so welcome everybody to Dine With the Divine.

Ashley:

I'm your host, Ashley, and together we're gonna be exploring the magical,

Ashley:

the my hole, everything in between.

Ashley:

So here on today's episode, we're chilling here in the Caribbean.

Ashley:

We might go to Asia and we're gonna clear up some miscon inceptions

Ashley:

about a goddess who has some very interesting jewelry choices.

Ashley:

So hi everybody.

Ashley:

Thanks so much for joining us again for another week.

Ashley:

I hope your week's going great, and if it's not, I hope it gets better.

Ashley:

So, I'm really excited to introduce today's guest.

Ashley:

Today we have Mala.

Ashley:

She's Indo Caribbean, Hindu spiritual practitioner.

Ashley:

And as Shakta, did I say that right, Mala?

Ashley:

Yes, you did.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

Who is devoted to the goddess she has, she combines over 20 plus years

Ashley:

of mental health experience as a licensed clinical psychotherapist,

Ashley:

life coach and practitioner of the Madrass and tantric Hindu traditions.

Ashley:

She's a practitioner of puja.

Mala:

Of practicing

Ashley:

Pujan.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Oh, practicing puja.

Ashley:

I apologize for that.

Ashley:

That channels as a means of connecting to her higher self to provide

Ashley:

guidance and support to others.

Ashley:

Her connection to her spiritual guides provides access to

Ashley:

ancestors and past lives.

Ashley:

Mala has shared this insight and guidance throughout her life and

Ashley:

with those who seek to work with her.

Ashley:

So thank you so much, Mala, for participating in this

Ashley:

and coming on the show.

Ashley:

This is so exciting.

Ashley:

Thank.

Ashley:

Awesome.

Ashley:

Okay, so we're gonna start at the very beginning.

Ashley:

So and this is all gonna bleed into everything else we talk about.

Ashley:

So there's a lot of stuff like that people would like, I just read your biography and

Ashley:

people are gonna read this and say, wow.

Ashley:

Not everybody, obviously a lot of people probably know things more than

Ashley:

me, but this is also to educate myself.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

Can you tell me a little, well, first let's start here.

Ashley:

Can you tell me a little bit of what brought you to like a spiritual

Ashley:

path and kind of being more involved in your own spiritual life,

Ashley:

like your own spiritual journey?

Ashley:

Oh,

Mala:

that is such a loaded question, like, how long do we have?

Mala:

So I'll give you the, the Cliff notes version.

Mala:

I come from a really spiritual family.

Mala:

I have one of those individuals who my, the earliest I can actually remember

Mala:

meditating was around seven years old.

Mala:

I started meditating from then because be prior to that, I had to

Mala:

learn the hard way that not everybody sees things that aren't here.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Not everybody knows things that aren't here.

Mala:

I wanna say the first time I ever saw someone who was dead

Mala:

was when my grandfather died, and I was three at the time.

Mala:

And I couldn't understand why when, and this was back home in Guyana,

Mala:

south America couldn't understand why, like, he was in this, in back home in

Mala:

Guyana, they put them in ice, right?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Ice over them to preserve the body.

Mala:

It's a tropical country.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

But then when I looked through the window, I could see him standing outside.

Mala:

And I was like, what's he doing here and doing there at the same time.

Mala:

I thought it was normal actually.

Mala:

I thought it was normal to see things or hear things.

Mala:

So I grew up thinking this is totally okay.

Mala:

This is me.

Mala:

I do have a very spiritual family.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

They gave us access, so they gave us access to individuals who taught

Mala:

us mantras and prayers and, and the beginning of meditation, a lot of my

Mala:

devotion actually came from my grandma.

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

My grandma was very devoted to the goddess.

Mala:

And she came when I was about 10 years old.

Mala:

And after that it was like, she kind of just threw me into it and it was

Mala:

like, okay, this is how you pray.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

This is why, this is what devotion looks like.

Mala:

And I was one of those individuals who was always seeking and, and

Mala:

learning, trying to learn, right?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And I started actually with my meditation.

Mala:

I started I think I was about like maybe 10, nine or 10, when the

Mala:

first time I realized that I could actually see myself leave my body.

Mala:

Mm.

Mala:

And, and move through my house.

Mala:

Wow.

Mala:

As a kid I would like run through the house and I, I started seeing these

Mala:

things and I couldn't understand why I was moving through a house or why I would walk

Mala:

down the steps and nobody could see me.

Mala:

So a lot of my spiritual journey actually, it felt really organic, I guess.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

If that makes sense.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

I just kept searching.

Mala:

I kept searching and looking and stumbling and realizing later on in

Mala:

life that most of my family knew.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Which told me I had imaginary friends.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Which is beautiful.

Mala:

Cause you know, you grew up thinking you're crazy, which is

Mala:

probably why I became a therapist.

Ashley:

Makes sense.

Ashley:

Totally.

Ashley:

It's so funny.

Ashley:

So , I think that because , People of color, especially if you

Ashley:

immigrated from this country.

Ashley:

And I guess this isn't everybody, so I can't, I guess I don't know who I

Ashley:

can include in this statement, but like I know, yeah, like, so my dad

Ashley:

is from Ghana and I always grew up hearing like stories about supernatural

Ashley:

experiences and things like that, so

Ashley:

I just always assumed that everybody's family also had

Ashley:

like supernatural experiences.

Ashley:

Like I would tell my friends like, oh yeah, and, then this

Ashley:

happened, and then this happened.

Ashley:

And the same thing is for my fiance, he's from Nigeria.

Ashley:

He tells me stories and he's like, so that kind of stuff just

Ashley:

doesn't happen all the time.

Ashley:

I'm like, no.

Ashley:

You know?

Ashley:

. And then stories kind of like you were talking about your grandfather.

Ashley:

It's like, oh yeah, so-and-so died.

Ashley:

But then we saw them last week . So this is a, a story that I always tell

Ashley:

everybody is about how my grandma had lunch with this guy who was actually

Ashley:

dead, and I just heard the storm was little and thought it was normal.

Ashley:

They're like, yeah, sometimes ghosts come and you eat dinner with them.

Ashley:

And everyone's like, that's weird.

Mala:

I'm like, really?

Mala:

I know.

Mala:

And what's even crazier is like trying to navigate that now.

Mala:

Like for instance, even with like my kids, both my kids have the same gift.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

My brother, sister, they all have the same gifts.

Mala:

Their kids have the very similar gifts.

Mala:

So trying to navigate with like my 10 year old things like, hey so why aren't

Mala:

you using the bathroom at the school?

Mala:

There's a girl screaming in there.

Mala:

So you're gonna get a UTI cuz you don't wanna go to that bathroom.

Mala:

Because there's a dead girl screaming in the bathroom.

Mala:

I'm like, two things.

Mala:

One, don't tell your friends cause you're gonna lose them and this is

Mala:

the age you don't wanna lose them.

Mala:

And two, I will have to roll up at the school and go investigate the passport.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

So I mean, there's certain things that we, I mean, I'll be honest, I feel like

Mala:

if we were still back home, and even when we're among our own people, and when I say

Mala:

own people, I mean Trinidadians Guyanese.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Even a lot of times Africans and I see sometimes Southern

Mala:

Baptists vibe really well.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

I feel like it's normalized and I feel very like okay to be myself.

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

To be like, like so you know, your grandfather's here.

Mala:

Did you do this recently?

Mala:

Like that feels like it just flows.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

But when I'm part of like more of my western world, I

Mala:

find myself having to okay.

Mala:

Bring that part of myself down and this very unauthentic version of myself mm-hmm.

Mala:

Has to come out.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

My husband calls it code switching.

Mala:

Yes.

Ashley:

That's exactly what it's, he's

Mala:

like, you have to code switch in this moment because how

Mala:

else would I get to where I am?

Mala:

Like I'm a, I consider myself a successful licensed clinical social worker.

Mala:

I have these amazing companies and staff who most of 'em don't even

Mala:

know what I'm capable of doing.

Mala:

They just don't kick ass therapist.

Mala:

And I work with people who've gone through trauma and my name is on their check.

Mala:

Right?

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

So we sort of have to live this other life where our spirituality is bottled up.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Right?

Mala:

And, and the crazy thing happens is I realize, no, I'm gonna be 44 this year.

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

I realized this year as I hit, when I hit 40, I realized that I,

Mala:

all of a sudden I developed this, well, I don't give a fuck anymore.

Mala:

I stopped pretending that I don't see stuff.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I stopped pretending that I don't hear things.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And the more I embrace my, my gifts, my natural born gift,

Mala:

the more that shit just came.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Now go anywhere.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Without hearing, seeing something, someone's grandmother come shows up

Mala:

and be like, oh, can you tell her this?

Mala:

No, I'm not gonna tell her that I'm trying to finish my dinner.

Mala:

Stand down for five seconds, let me go do this.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

But I think, I think that's the part that I actually love

Mala:

about being in No Caribbean.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I, and, and not to say that the western civilization, Western people don't have

Mala:

a rich history in and of themselves.

Mala:

Of my Caribbean ancestry.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I'm so proud of the fact that my, my Indian ancestry, you know, our,

Mala:

our trek is indenture servants from India to Guyana, where many of us

Mala:

ended up Guyana, Trinidad, mm-hmm.

Mala:

Jamaica.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Yeah.

Ashley:

We find

Mala:

our people everywhere.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

But I, I think, I think that's the beautiful thing about our culture, right?

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

The spiritual aspect and how normal it feels in like the Caribbean countries.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And if you

Ashley:

come here.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Oh God, so many things to say about that.

Ashley:

There's , so I find, especially in the United States, and like I do a lot of

Ashley:

work with like people dying and stuff.

Ashley:

So there's such a lack of ritual and I feel like a lot of that, I

Ashley:

mean, it stems from the puritanical past of the United States, right?

Ashley:

But like, I have people and it's usually White American people who will

Ashley:

say things to me , I saw this, or I had a dream, or somebody died in my

Ashley:

family and then I saw this animal.

Ashley:

Do you think that I'm like, yes, yes, yes.

Ashley:

Like why?

Ashley:

To me, I'm , yeah, that's duh, that's this or this that.

Ashley:

But , and I don't ever wanna judge anybody, but I'm just , feel so bad

Ashley:

that people think like, that's weird.

Ashley:

I'm like, no, no, no.

Ashley:

It's like normal.

Ashley:

But when you grow up in a culture where you don't hear that, like it's not normal

Ashley:

to say, well, this animal is probably coming back from, you know, you saw a

Ashley:

deer in your backyard and the day your father died and that's probably your dad.

Ashley:

Yeah, it probably is , but.

Ashley:

We in this country, there's not that tradition of thinking of

Ashley:

those types of things like that.

Ashley:

And unfortunately, weirdly enough, I find that sometimes, like in the south, like

Ashley:

kinda like you were talking about before, like Southern Baptist and stuff, and even

Ashley:

I find this like a lot in Jamaica too.

Ashley:

Like a lot of the times where people see these spiritual things is because

Ashley:

of the troubles that were there.

Ashley:

You know what I mean?

Ashley:

The problems.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

And so I feel like they're more connected to that lineage and

Ashley:

it's like these people, they.

Ashley:

They suffered and then persevered, but they kept that, you know what I mean?

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

And then it's kind of the same thing.

Ashley:

Like a lot of Indu Caribbean people, they came after slavery.

Ashley:

They outlawed slavery.

Ashley:

They were oh man, we need more people.

Ashley:

Like, well, we're, we're the British.

Ashley:

Where else do we rule?

Ashley:

Oh, India, let's go get all of them.

Ashley:

And promising them, like, , we're gonna do all these things.

Ashley:

And they were working all day and all night.

Ashley:

Like they were working real hard, but they were able to, number one, persevere,

Ashley:

preserve their culture, their traditions, and make it like, and then integrate

Ashley:

with the other people on the island.

Ashley:

Cuz all the, the black people too, they were Hey, we like your food.

Ashley:

And then, and people are , we your food too.

Ashley:

Let's all eat together.

Ashley:

Like, and let's make this other cool food.

Ashley:

Like, so like they, they have this beautiful perseverance.

Ashley:

So like I felt so when you said , oh, I'm so proud.

Ashley:

I feel the same way.

Ashley:

I'm like, wow.

Ashley:

Like I come from people who like persevered.

Ashley:

They were, they were already cool.

Ashley:

. And they did so much and they were able to retain this beautiful relationship

Ashley:

yeah.

Ashley:

Which is important, don't get me wrong.

Ashley:

But like, they took their traditions and were , okay, we're gonna bring this here.

Ashley:

We're gonna maybe make it a little different cuz we're in a different place,

Ashley:

but we're gonna keep , Our beautiful sense of self and , I just think it's so cool,

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

I think, I think that's the way also we preserve our, our lineage, right?

Mala:

Like you said, yes, we preserve it.

Mala:

And I just to speak , you know, I think one of the things that

Mala:

I've found even historically in America is that a lot of quote,

Mala:

Americans aren't given the language.

Mala:

Should be able to express what they see and what they feel.

Mala:

I think the concepts of fear and like you mentioned, you know, coming from the

Mala:

Puritan era, I mean, I'm no expert on this, but I think as a therapist mm-hmm.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I've seen, and, and that's what I can speak to as a therapist.

Mala:

I've seen that the concept of fear and paranoia and, and all of

Mala:

these mized experiences lead to psychological suppression, right?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And then, you know, all of these illnesses, illnesses

Mala:

of the mind and the body.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

And now everybody's trying to be woke and do somatic stuff

Mala:

and breath work and mm-hmm.

Mala:

Oh, we're gonna do some deep breathing.

Mala:

Well, bitches, it's Prada, Yama, let's what?

Mala:

It's but everybody's gonna come up with a new name for it and, you know, you

Mala:

know, make shit up as they go along.

Mala:

Cause for some reason everybody thinks tantra is only about sex,

Mala:

but it's way more than that.

Mala:

We're

Ashley:

getting to it, girl, because I have a lot of questions,

Mala:

but I, I'll say, just to speak to the fact that I've seen that over

Mala:

the years, I've, I've been, I've been in mental health for over 20 years.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And the impact of not having, you know, the language to really express

Mala:

what you see and what's going on.

Mala:

I mean, I worked in psychiatric hospitals, I've seen individuals

Mala:

come in where they work.

Mala:

Psychiatric Mm.

Mala:

Was so being definitely a miss in Denmark, but it was more spiritual.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And unfortunately, our system doesn't have the language.

Mala:

To give life to that.

Mala:

Like, you know, they could definitely codify being gay first.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And say that's the disease.

Mala:

But they couldn't find a goddamn language to say that.

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

It's actually okay if children might have what we call in a

Mala:

west ind a light shadow mm-hmm.

Mala:

To be able to see something that's not there.

Mala:

Let's not tell them they're crazy.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Let's not pathologize it and make them feel like something's wrong

Mala:

with them and create a disease model.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Instead let's say, alright, well so grandma does come and visit

Mala:

you, but you're gonna tell grandma she can't sit around right now

Mala:

cause you gotta go take a nap.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

And, and, and really putting, like, helping them to internalize that

Mala:

there's nothing wrong with them.

Mala:

Cause I think a lot of disease comes from that and I see it

Mala:

personally because my specialization is adolescent children, families.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

I see the beginning of life and I see where we start to really

Mala:

fuck up our kids and our families.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

By not giving them the space or the, the foundation, the language

Mala:

to normalize so many things that get normalized in the Caribbean.

Mala:

Yeah,

Ashley:

yeah, yeah.

Ashley:

Oh, that's so, oh my God, that everything he says is true.

Ashley:

I just, I feel that so hard cuz it's like, there's so many spiritual

Ashley:

experiences, especially as a person of color, a first generation

Ashley:

American person that I may have.

Ashley:

But like my parents never said it was weird.

Ashley:

, I'd be like, oh, I have this dream.

Ashley:

And , I felt like God was everywhere around me and my parents

Ashley:

were like, oh, that's great.

Ashley:

It was never , oh, that's bad or it's scary.

Ashley:

I was , they were , they're, that's great.

Ashley:

That you're feeling this presence.

Ashley:

I used to say sometimes they go to church and I feel like the

Ashley:

presence of God and , I don't know.

Ashley:

And my dad's like, that's it.

Ashley:

That's great.

Ashley:

That's Fanta.

Ashley:

Nobody ever demonized it to me.

Ashley:

So.

Ashley:

When I feel that, and I never shared it with my friends, cause my dad

Ashley:

specifically was like, do not tell white people, sorry, white people.

Ashley:

I'm not trying to insult you, but my dad used to say to me, don't tell

Ashley:

white people that you feel this white.

Ashley:

They're gonna think you're crazy.

Ashley:

And I was like, okay.

Ashley:

But like I've also kind of you, I've always been a little bit connected.

Ashley:

So I would say things, I would say, especially like my grandmother

Ashley:

who I never met, but I have this relationship with her that is insane.

Ashley:

And I would tell my mom all the, and I still do, I tell my mom

Ashley:

like, oh, grandma's said this.

Ashley:

Or like, I felt grandma and my mom would never be , oh no, that's wrong.

Ashley:

Or she would be oh, she would cry half the time.

Ashley:

My grandma died when my mom was 10.

Ashley:

So she would get so emotional or she would just be happy to hear from her.

Ashley:

So I, that was my next thing I was gonna talk to you about because for you as

Ashley:

a clinician, What to you separates, especially with younger kids, right?

Ashley:

Like what separates for you a spiritual experience versus an actual, maybe

Ashley:

there's an issue that needs to be, you know, dealt with, with however,

Ashley:

therapy, medication, whatever you think.

Ashley:

What does it look like for you when you see that?

Mala:

Well, the instances where it has occurred in my so I'll tell you a story.

Mala:

I, I get called in and of course, as a therapist, we assess, you

Mala:

assess, you assess, you assess.

Mala:

That's what you do the entire time.

Mala:

You're always assessing.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Assessing starts from the first conversation.

Mala:

And so does like the whole treatment planning and even discharge planning.

Mala:

We're always thinking two steps ahead and we're always assessing.

Mala:

And I was called to work with a young lady whom they were

Mala:

reporting she had was cutting.

Mala:

They thought that, you know, she might have some early onset schizophrenia.

Mala:

She was having a little bit of psychosis, very alienating herself.

Mala:

There was just a lot going on in, in the home.

Mala:

So I went in to work with her.

Mala:

Initially, the first time I went, went in, I started talking to the mom, and

Mala:

I always assess for spirituality, why.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Those are great coping skills.

Mala:

Yes, yes.

Ashley:

Oh girl.

Ashley:

Yes.

Mala:

So I look at, okay, what is the family attached to?

Mala:

What does the system look like, the community look like?

Mala:

And then what does the system within the house look like?

Mala:

And what are your spiritual beliefs, if any.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And then mom started talking about, oh, we have to stop.

Mala:

She couldn't get her communion, like she was kind of going on about this.

Mala:

And I dig a little deeper.

Mala:

I, I start to look at were there any depths?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Because I have to do grief, right?

Mala:

Maybe grief happened, maybe the youth was molested.

Mala:

Maybe, you know, we kinda gotta go through all these things to find trauma.

Mala:

If there was trauma, right?

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

There's a reason something is happening.

Mala:

And I to do that, I always rule out medical first.

Mala:

I'm a medical social worker.

Mala:

I always look, first of all, what's going on in your body.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Before I start looking in your mind, because things like, for

Mala:

instance, diabetes, if your sugar is not under control, your

Mala:

blood sugar's not under control.

Mala:

It can present with psychosis.

Mala:

Yes, yes.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

My disease can present with psychosis.

Mala:

So it's like, it can present with, with diagnosis.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

You know I worked in, I was the clinical director of a nursing

Mala:

home, social work, nursing home.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Social department in a nursing home, and yeah.

Mala:

When those were rag.

Mala:

Oh my god.

Mala:

Lemme help you.

Mala:

Like popping off in the, the arts room.

Mala:

Everybody was talking to somebody.

Mala:

God bless them soul.

Mala:

But I would be running the chart.

Mala:

Uti.

Mala:

Is there a UTI in here?

Mala:

But with this particular young lady, so to go back to my story, forgive me, I

Mala:

PhD, I like to be all over the place.

Mala:

I'm unmet.

Mala:

No problem.

Mala:

All good for me.

Mala:

So this particular young lady, by the third session, I think by the

Mala:

second or third session we made our way upstairs cause her mom said she

Mala:

was screaming in her room always like, you know, bananas and pajamas.

Mala:

So we went upstairs, we're sitting there cuz I do a lot

Mala:

of my therapy in the community.

Mala:

Ok.

Mala:

I need to go into the spaces and places where the issues are occurring because

Mala:

people can come into my office and they can lie all they want to Tuesday.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Ain't nobody able to lie to you.

Mala:

Absolutely.

Mala:

You see the mucky muck they're living in.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

And have to be, you see their raw self.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And if you go from a place of respect and honor mm-hmm.

Mala:

Like the honor and what they're, and where they're at, people will open up.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

They'll build es made my way up.

Mala:

This young lady's steps into her room.

Mala:

And Lord, let me tell you, walked into the room and grandma was in the mirror.

Mala:

Mm.

Mala:

And I looked around the room and I'm like, oh, I, I didn't tell them.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Your dead grandmother in the mirror.

Mala:

They had told me that the grandmother had passed.

Mala:

The youth was like very close to the grandmother.

Mala:

Lo and behold, I find out the entire bedroom set belonged to the grandmother

Mala:

rosary that somehow miraculously had like, tied around the child's neck one night.

Mala:

Ooh.

Mala:

And I'm like, I'm like, okay.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I'm like, first of all, I was like, here's what we gonna do.

Mala:

I was like, we gonna ask her to exit.

Mala:

You know, I I I always assess for the parents and the family

Mala:

spiritual belief system.

Mala:

Right?

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

I start the youth with, you know, she read her Bible.

Mala:

We found a psm.

Mala:

I mean, I'm a practicing Hindu.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I've everything from the Torah, the Koran, to old Testament, new

Mala:

Testament, and the Hindu scriptures.

Mala:

Cuz I love religion, but it makes so much sense in what I do in my life.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

We found places in scriptures that would really work for her.

Mala:

Was she still haunted?

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Went back to mom and I was like, Hey, listen, when did the furniture come?

Mala:

Mom?

Mala:

I realized had spiritual beliefs.

Mala:

Mom was also having dreams about grandma.

Mala:

We got rid of the furniture and the diagnosis went away.

Mala:

Ah, look at that.

Mala:

Wow.

Mala:

And I was like, ok.

Mala:

So, I mean, unfortunately I'm a part of a system and insurance

Mala:

rules the world in America.

Mala:

Of course.

Mala:

Oh my god.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

So you gotta look at things like.

Mala:

And say things like, well, I couldn't say that she was haunted.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

People force come for my degree.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

If I said that.

Mala:

So instead I was like, you know, she's suffering some depression.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

There was depression in there.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

I wasn't dying and, and maybe my treatment modality in writing was using the Bible

Mala:

and her prayers and the family, like talking and doing communication skills.

Mala:

That was true.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

I, I just kinda had to leave out the parts where I had to have the room taken

Mala:

out, the house cleansed, put on front.

Mala:

Because it didn't make sense for this family.

Mala:

Right?

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

But I, I see it a lot.

Mala:

I'll see people say things like, oh, this is this is schizophrenia.

Mala:

And, no.

Mala:

I had one other young lady, she saw numbers and what she saw was people's

Mala:

life path numbers right in front.

Mala:

And, and she would be able to tell you all these beautiful

Mala:

things based on your number.

Mala:

Well, they said she had psychosis, but Home Skillet was only seeing numbers.

Mala:

She wasn't seeing ghosts.

Mala:

Mm.

Mala:

I sat with the parents.

Mala:

I gave them someone to talk to, you know, I said it was anxiety, which

Mala:

it, the school was creating anxiety.

Mala:

The system was creating anxiety for the child.

Mala:

They weren't formalizing that.

Mala:

She was actually, and it was so crazy.

Mala:

I spoke to a, a Hindu pundit.

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

And the numbers of this child is seeing correlate to when you open up.

Mala:

They, they open up these, they call it books, right?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And when they open up these books based on where you're born, the, the

Mala:

planet, the time of day, the whole entire, you know, kit, caboodle

Mala:

they'll tell you certain things.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Numbers.

Mala:

She would just look at a human being and tell their numbers, wow, who

Mala:

was born with this amazing gift?

Mala:

But sometimes we have to, or systems pathologizing.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

They say, mm-hmm.

Mala:

Well, I lie to you and tell you I haven't seen more than, you

Mala:

know, I can count on my hands.

Mala:

Spiritual issues versus mental health.

Mala:

And I'm not allowed you.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Nope, nope.

Mala:

But I also feel like a lot of times someone like me ends

Mala:

up with those individuals.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Mala:

Like the case will fall through with someone else or they didn't find me,

Mala:

or they'll randomly find me somewhere.

Mala:

It's always something that makes them end up on my path.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

And it'll be stuff where like the medication isn't working or this

Mala:

isn't working, and then I'll end up talking to somebody who's passed.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Or I'll find out they made a trip to Haiti and something popped off.

Mala:

I know something popped off or they went to a funeral in

Mala:

Louisiana and something popped off.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

That'll happen.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

And you know, sometimes I just embrace it.

Mala:

But yeah, there is true mental illness.

Mala:

There are human beings who the chemical is imbalanced and of course, yeah,

Mala:

she's not there and I'll always call it what it is, but I always rule it out.

Mala:

And so for me personally, I always rule out spiritual as well,

Ashley:

which, yeah, no, I think I have a very good friend who's also a

Ashley:

therapist and she does the same thing and like, She's also very spiritual.

Ashley:

But I think that is such a good way to go because I, I, I mean

Ashley:

obviously , I'm a nurse, so I want, you know, I know that like.

Ashley:

I'm not one of these people who's like, everything is spiritual.

Ashley:

Cause I don't think that, yes, there's some people, they just

Ashley:

have chemical imbalances in their brain that cause issues.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

And that's fine.

Ashley:

And we deal with that with therapy or medication or both, whatever.

Ashley:

But once in a while, some people are really having spiritual issues.

Ashley:

And I think it's so important to always rule that out first.

Ashley:

So then , then we don't muddy the waters or we don't put people

Ashley:

in unnecessary treatment plans.

Ashley:

That don't, aren't really gonna benefit them in the long run.

Ashley:

You know what I mean?

Ashley:

But Yeah.

Ashley:

That's wonderful.

Ashley:

I love, I love the connection that you make there because I feel like that is

Ashley:

the maximal way to help people, you know?

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

To, to take every aspect of their life.

Ashley:

I feel like people in the medical industrial complex, we leave out

Ashley:

spirituality so often because like you said, insurance is, there's

Ashley:

no i c d code for like haunting

Mala:

seeing dead people.

Ashley:

Exactly.

Mala:

Absolutely nothing.

Mala:

And I, I mean, But I will say that I found like even with End of Life was the one

Mala:

place where it was the most welcoming.

Mala:

Like had a lot of my, my clients who are passing I found that my hospice nurses, my

Mala:

hospice social workers, I found that they were more open to those spiritual aspects.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Versus, you know, cause there's something about end of life.

Mala:

It's almost like people are willing to take anything.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

And I think that's where a lot of I found the most like,

Mala:

welcoming, if that makes sense.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

In terms of, regardless of where they were, like where they were in terms of

Mala:

like ethnicity or race or spirituality, something about when you're about

Mala:

to meet your maker or not meet your maker, whatever people may believe.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

All of a sudden, like people are willing to like, believe anything.

Mala:

Ah, yes.

Mala:

In that moment cause fear and, you know, trauma and all these

Mala:

other beautiful things like to rage their ugly little face.

Mala:

But I got lost.

Mala:

What we talk about again,

Ashley:

girl, don't worry, we're just, we're just chatting.

Ashley:

But all right.

Ashley:

So you know what, actually this is a good part.

Ashley:

We're what we're gonna do next is we're gonna talk about food and then we're gonna

Ashley:

get to more stuff that you brought up.

Ashley:

And I have to bring that up again because we're gonna go to another Okay.

Ashley:

I'm, I'm babbling.

Ashley:

Let's talk about the food.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

So, so I try to pick a dish for every episode and today's dish because

Ashley:

we got Mala and her beautiful Indo Caribbean, Guyanese self here.

Ashley:

I was like, okay, let me try to pick a dish that like we

Ashley:

all like something technical.

Ashley:

And I was like, I'm not doing something technical.

Ashley:

Let's do something easy that we all know.

Ashley:

So we got some curry goat.

Ashley:

I mean, some people may not like goat.

Ashley:

I do.

Ashley:

Do you like

Mala:

goat?

Mala:

Actually I became a vegetarian.

Mala:

Oh gosh.

Ashley:

You're a vegetarian.

Ashley:

I'm sorry.

Mala:

I, I ended up something that people a lot of times don't understand or

Mala:

don't, it's a side effect of meditation.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Start to meditate and lift your vibration.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Something happens where your physical body starts to say, Nope, nope.

Mala:

Uhuh, that makes sense.

Mala:

I can't consume that.

Mala:

But I mean, I'm a part of a culture where, you know, goat is pet the

Mala:

pot for us Christmas morning.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

You know, so GOAT is a big park.

Mala:

We do it when somebody's like a child is born, we'll get a goat.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Somebody's getting married, get three goats.

Ashley:

Why not get a goat for every occasion?

Ashley:

I love it.

Mala:

It's like very common, especially since we're Hindu.

Mala:

We don't.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

And then a lot of Hindus don't do pork as well.

Mala:

Oh, okay.

Mala:

So GOAT is really our go-to besides like chicken or duck.

Mala:

Yeah, yeah.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

And the occasional lamb.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I'm getting hungry and I'm a vegetarian.

Ashley:

That's so, okay.

Ashley:

You know what I dish I should have picked, and you, youll probably know the name of

Ashley:

this dish because I don't remember it.

Ashley:

It's like chickpeas with like in like a spicy situation.

Ashley:

I'm not sure the name of this.

Ashley:

Yes,

Mala:

China's a good one, but you know what's an even better one?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Cook up rice.

Mala:

Cook up rice.

Mala:

Have you ever had cook up rice?

Ashley:

No.

Ashley:

I don't think I've ever had cook up rice.

Ashley:

So

Mala:

cook up rice actually comes from the villages.

Mala:

It comes from the very beginning for many of us.

Mala:

Cause what happened is, so cook up rice.

Mala:

You are, you're gonna know exactly what it's, once I tell you what it's okay.

Mala:

One big pot.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

You throw inside of it, greens black eye peas, any kind of meat and fish you got.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

Okay girl.

Mala:

Yep.

Mala:

Like everything gets thrown into this one pot and they cook it outside.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And it's very, very common.

Mala:

Anybody who is from like the Caribbean, a lot of us have this one.

Mala:

It's just like a, it looks like the in the south, their

Ashley:

jambalaya.

Ashley:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

I know what you're talking about now.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

I get,

Mala:

and soup rice is actually a staple that came from.

Mala:

Or a product, I should say, a product of our indentured servitude.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Why?

Mala:

Nice.

Mala:

How?

Mala:

Because they were so poor when they got to where they got to, some people had

Mala:

potatoes, some people had black ice, some people had China, which is azo beans.

Mala:

People had like a handful of rice, some green, they would throw all of

Mala:

that into the one pot and everybody ate regardless of what you had.

Mala:

Somebody might have had a chicken, somebody had some fish.

Mala:

They throw all that into one pot with spices and everybody got to eat.

Mala:

And that is actually, when I think about it, a lot of times that is really like

Mala:

symbolic of who we are as a people.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Cook up rice when you think about it.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

We're a little bit of everything, but everybody gets to eat.

Mala:

And I think that's what's helped us as a people survive

Mala:

through indentured servitude.

Mala:

Right?

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Indenture servitude is slavery.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

It's the same thing basically.

Ashley:

It really, it just like sounds better, but it's no better guys.

Ashley:

No better.

Ashley:

It's just as bad.

Mala:

You're still going through these horrible, horrible things.

Mala:

Like I hear stories that my mom and even my mother-in-law will tell about,

Mala:

like there were places where even when they were born, you couldn't go.

Mala:

Cause the British soldiers were systematically raping the Indian women.

Mala:

No.

Mala:

And that so, and the men couldn't do anything about it.

Mala:

And when they tried to rage against it, what did they do?

Mala:

They took the black Africans in Diana and the Indians, and

Mala:

they pit us against each other.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

So then they fight us.

Mala:

Then we wouldn't be able to conquer them until we finally figured

Mala:

it out, made our hookup rice.

Ashley:

We all sat down.

Ashley:

We're like, you guys, we both hate the British.

Ashley:

So why are we fighting

Mala:

with each, let's all get together and kick asses out the country.

Mala:

We can fight among ourselves the next how many years.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

But that's the reality of it.

Mala:

Like, and I think that's one of the beautiful things about

Mala:

like the Indu Caribbean culture.

Mala:

One of the things that I learned was I, and I used to ask my mom

Mala:

them this a lot when I was younger.

Mala:

Like, so who celebrated Dewali and who celebrated all the Hindu

Mala:

holidays and who celebrated Easter?

Mala:

Cause my mom's like, oh, it's Easter time.

Mala:

I'm like, we're Hindus?

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Celebrating Easter.

Mala:

Oh, it's Eid.

Mala:

It's after Ramadan.

Mala:

Why are we?

Mala:

And she's like, but Guy was like that in your village.

Mala:

You could have a Muslim family, a Christian family, a Hindu family.

Mala:

Everybody celebrated everybody's holiday.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

And was the one thing that all of, regardless of mm-hmm.

Mala:

Regardless of it meant the whole village could survive.

Ashley:

I'm community.

Ashley:

That's how a lot of these communities, like especially, you know, in places

Ashley:

like we're talking about Guyana and different parts of the Caribbean.

Ashley:

That's how we all got through it was because we all just fed each other.

Ashley:

Because we're like, we're all tired, man.

Ashley:

We're all going through it.

Ashley:

So like, let's, and then we, those communities, they take,

Ashley:

they take care of each other.

Ashley:

Don't get me wrong, it's not like everything's perfect, but like there's

Ashley:

cook up rice is like such a beautiful.

Ashley:

Example, like you're saying, just of community and people just

Ashley:

being like, all right, we got like, girl, you got some potatoes.

Ashley:

I got some beans.

Ashley:

Let's figure this shit out.

Mala:

Really?

Mala:

What?

Mala:

It's so funny cause when I was growing, hated, right?

Mala:

Tell my grandmother, you just throw everything

Mala:

into the fridge and you can hand touch it.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

In the pot.

Mala:

I said, chicken and fish exist in the same pot.

Mala:

And why is it outside instead of on the right?

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

But it wasn't until years later, you know, as an adult I realized how important

Mala:

that one thing is because people would come together to cook it, first of all.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And nobody was poor at that moment.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Cause think about somebody could contribute and if everybody could

Mala:

contribute, it didn't matter if you were contributing the chicken or

Mala:

you were contributing the rice or the black eye or the doll or, or the

Mala:

garbanzo beans, it didn't matter.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Still given something.

Mala:

So that meant everybody eats.

Mala:

Yes, exactly.

Mala:

Think that's one of the beautiful things about our culture and I feel

Mala:

like in so many ways we lose it, we're losing it as generations of us

Mala:

are, are being, I mean, my children are first gen born in this country.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I to eat rice.

Mala:

I,

Mala:

yeah.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

You're gonna be happy.

Ashley:

So, so first of all, I just love that you brought this up.

Ashley:

I'm gonna, I'm gonna do some internet stuff and when this episode comes

Ashley:

out, I'm gonna have some links in the show notes about Cook Up Rice because

Ashley:

this is just an awesome concept, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that.

Ashley:

So, oh my God, thanks so much for telling us about that Mala.

Ashley:

So, okay, so this is a part of the show where I plug myself and then at

Ashley:

the end of this show, Molly's gonna give us all her links so you guys can

Ashley:

follow her and just how awesome she is.

Ashley:

Cause I'm like obsessed with her already.

Ashley:

Okay, so, so this is where I plug myself, like I said.

Ashley:

So if you guys enjoy this show you can follow me on social.

Ashley:

So I'm on Instagram at Dime with The Divine on Instagram and then on

Ashley:

Facebook I'm Done With The Divine.

Ashley:

And if you really like the show, you can subscribe, you can like,

Ashley:

you can give us a rating on whatever platform you listen to it on.

Ashley:

And if you have any questions, comics.

Ashley:

Constructive critiques.

Ashley:

Feel free to email me at dine with the divine pot gmail.com.

Ashley:

So, like I said, at the end, we're gonna talk all Mala stuff

Ashley:

and get all her information.

Ashley:

So just stay tuned.

Ashley:

We're gonna get it.

Ashley:

So, all right, the next part of the show, I like to call it tee time cuz

Ashley:

I like to do a little educational thing and so I picked some stuff.

Ashley:

All right, let me start with a very short story.

Ashley:

When I was younger, I used to love this website called Beliefnet.

Ashley:

So I also am like very obsessed with the religion.

Ashley:

That's why I'm doing this podcast.

Ashley:

I'm like obsessed with religion and culture and stuff like that.

Ashley:

And on belief that you got to read about all these different religions.

Ashley:

It was very well-researched site.

Ashley:

I don't even know if it's still on.

Ashley:

I should check.

Ashley:

But anyway, I always used to read about Hinduism that like Hinduism is really

Ashley:

confusing for everybody who's not Hindu.

Ashley:

They're like, you're Hindu.

Ashley:

It makes perfect sense.

Ashley:

And it's like, and if you're not, you probably won't get it.

Ashley:

Like, so don't worry about it.

Ashley:

So like, I used to read this and he used to drive me nuts because I was

Ashley:

like, I really tried to like, I was like, no, I'm gonna understand it.

Ashley:

Like, and I, the thing is, I.

Ashley:

Have a basic understanding, but, and even on this website, they'd

Ashley:

be like, even if you have a basic understanding, you're probably wrong.

Ashley:

So just don't worry about it.

Ashley:

Everything you think, you know, you actually don't.

Ashley:

I'm the only people who get it are usually people who are just handed.

Ashley:

So I'm like, okay, that's fine.

Ashley:

I'm just gonna give up.

Ashley:

But at the same time, we have Molly here, so I'm gonna ask her some questions

Ashley:

about a couple different things.

Ashley:

So the first thing we, I, I was like, let me pick a subject.

Ashley:

The first subject I wanted to pick was like, Kini yoga.

Ashley:

After I picked that, I went down this rabbit hole, and I

Ashley:

was like, what, what, what?

Ashley:

There's so much going on and it's so interesting.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

First, you mentioned this before.

Ashley:

When I was reading about Kendall Yoga, they were also

Ashley:

talking about tan tantric yoga.

Ashley:

And I am one of those terrible people who also thought tantric

Ashley:

yoga was just about sex.

Ashley:

Cuz that's all I ever heard.

Ashley:

I don't know anything about tantric yoga.

Ashley:

I just heard people like, oh, it's sexual yoga.

Ashley:

And I was like, okay.

Ashley:

Like that's fine, whatever.

Ashley:

But tantric yoga, from what I've read, and you correct me if I'm wrong, it is, and

Ashley:

condon yoga have to do with the goddess.

Ashley:

And is the goddess Durga, is that the goddess we're referring to?

Ashley:

It

Mala:

depends.

Ashley:

Here's who I'm talking about.

Mala:

Here's, here's, here's my disclaimer.

Mala:

So my big disclaimer is one, I only know what I know and I

Mala:

don't know what I don't know.

Mala:

That's okay.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

So I never will profess that I am some expert on, on Kal yoga or Tantra.

Mala:

All I know is what I've practiced.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

And what it's done for me, what I've been raised in.

Mala:

So even when you said about like Hinduism, I'm like, yo, the Indians, like in from

Mala:

India will totally be like, this happened.

Mala:

I don't know what the hell she talking about.

Mala:

I only know I, I mean, I have some aspects of it.

Mala:

Like I, I'm pretty, I consider myself pretty well read.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I studied Hinduism.

Mala:

I looked at the text.

Mala:

I did it as a scholar.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

I looked at all that beautiful stuff and I learned about all the

Mala:

different sex of you know, Hinduism.

Mala:

But I'll break it down the simplest way I can possibly tell you.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Most Hinduism is part of this.

Mala:

Like, there's like these main gods.

Mala:

Vishnu Krishna, like, and when you have these main ones, they have their

Mala:

own people, their own belief systems, their own way of looking at everything.

Mala:

They define everything on earth, right?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

For me personally, I'm Ata.

Mala:

And so what that is, it means, is that in my universe, it's the goddess

Mala:

first, and then all of them came.

Mala:

Right?

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

See her as a, to them I see her as the, the, the whole,

Mala:

you know, the whole shebang.

Mala:

She's it.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

For me, I refer to her Asti, the, you know, that's the one who I am devoted to.

Mala:

So whenever I wanna speak about tantra or, you know, kini or even yoga, my

Mala:

experience is very specific to being ata.

Mala:

It's very goddess.

Mala:

So for me, when I went through and I was really learning and understanding

Mala:

tantra and I was learning, which tantra just means woven, right?

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Ok.

Mala:

Ok.

Mala:

Woven together.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

Ok.

Mala:

You know, like to take the word and they put it to sex and they're like, oh,

Mala:

this is a penis and they're together.

Mala:

That means they're woven.

Mala:

Like they can

Ashley:

mean a lot of things more than that.

Ashley:

Like that's a very strange thing, you know, that people make it about that.

Ashley:

But anyway, go ahead.

Mala:

Because of the, of Kundalini, right.

Mala:

Kundalini is this primordial energy that gives light.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

And does that life exist?

Mala:

It exist down there.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Yeah, yeah.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

So a lot of that just got taken outta context.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And you have a spiritual experience and sex.

Mala:

Yes, you totally can, but it's when you find your right partner.

Mala:

Yeah, yeah.

Mala:

Find the right partner.

Mala:

Then that's when you know you can go through that practice

Mala:

because it's a, it literally feels like a spiritual experience

Mala:

when you find the right partner.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

It's not trying out a bunch of partners and you know, you know it introducing

Mala:

the comma switcher into there.

Mala:

No, that's actually not what it's, mm-hmm.

Mala:

For me, when I started really looking at.

Mala:

You know, kini yoga and chakras, which they're not called chakras.

Mala:

They're

Ashley:

chakras.

Ashley:

I know.

Ashley:

Now I've learned this and I feel so dumb, so I just don't say it.

Ashley:

I'm like, you know, the system with the, with the things.

Ashley:

I don't wanna, I'm like, I sound stupid when I say it.

Mala:

I tell people, like, you know, with the learning about the chocolates,

Mala:

learning about the nads and the mm-hmm.

Mala:

Like, you know, those, those, those different energy centers in the body.

Mala:

I equate that to specific goddesses.

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

I like in the west they, when they look at a lot of kini yoga,

Mala:

it depends on who it came from.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

You know, in the west, a lot of what they see as yoga is a very

Mala:

unfortunate, like, whitewashed version that was west who came from the east.

Mala:

Who washed it out for them and gave them these seriously, like, you know, crazy

Mala:

ass versions of Tantra and, and yoga.

Mala:

But I also think a lot of it was based on like, you know being

Mala:

able to captivate an audience.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

I find personally, and people can fight it out with me if they want to.

Mala:

Sometimes in the West, my clients that I work with, even in meditation

Mala:

or doing Kundalini yoga, they wanna know, well, how long do I have to

Mala:

do this before I can get to here?

Ashley:

Girl, it's a problem.

Ashley:

I when I work with people, it drives me crazy when people are like, and I'm not,

Ashley:

again, , I don't completely blame them because of maybe our situation here, but

Ashley:

like people are like, well, how many times do I have to do this till I feel better?

Ashley:

And it's like, I don't know, girl.

Ashley:

Like until you do, I can't.

Ashley:

Spirit works.

Ashley:

How Spirit works.

Ashley:

I can't tell you, I'm not gonna be like, excuse me, goddesses and gods.

Ashley:

How do you think this is gonna, I don't know, \, but people are such

Ashley:

a rush, like, no, no, but I wanna know that I only have to see you

Ashley:

twice and then I'm gonna be healed.

Ashley:

Right?

Ashley:

I'm like, no, no, that's not, and I feel like that's such a

Ashley:

block to healing for people.

Ashley:

But anyway, keep going.

Ashley:

I'm sorry.

Ashley:

Similar

Mala:

to psychotherapy, people come to me and they're like, so how many

Mala:

sessions do, I'm no longer like,

Mala:

and I, I'll look at people like, I love you and I really wanna help you, but

Mala:

first we have to take away the concept of like, well, how fast can I get here?

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

It's no race.

Mala:

Like we're not in a race to get there.

Mala:

And I think that's one of the things that is lacking a lot of times and people

Mala:

who wanna practice kini yoga or even working on their chakra, there is this.

Mala:

This insatiable desire to just get it done.

Mala:

Like, I'm gonna get it done.

Mala:

It's gonna go from here to here, to here, to here.

Mala:

Bam.

Mala:

I'm enlightened.

Mala:

No, no.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

That's how it works.

Mala:

It's actually a journey.

Mala:

And that journey can take years upon years.

Mala:

I mean, I started meditating at freaking seven.

Mala:

My memories were of tying sheets around my head and telling my sister and brother to

Mala:

sit there in front of me and pray to me.

Mala:

And they were like, what?

Mala:

And the thing was, the thing was, a lot of the concepts I used to use, they weren't

Mala:

in our, our structure of our family.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Like now, like when I, I talk about it, my family's like, well,

Mala:

we don't know where you got that.

Mala:

Cuz the internet wasn't around.

Mala:

I'm 44 this year, you know, I remember beepers, I was there at

Mala:

the birth of the internet actually.

Mala:

I flipped.

Mala:

But I tell people, like, there I had to go to like Irvington Library to learn things.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Irvington Library didn't.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

So I did that work and that's what, you know, that was a slow progress.

Mala:

It took me years to learn this and I'll meet people and be like, so, so

Mala:

how long should I work on this chakra?

Mala:

I dunno.

Mala:

Until it feels good.

Mala:

What do you want me to tell you?

Mala:

Like, I'll, I'll walk you through this place to get here.

Mala:

I mean, for me, when it comes to Tan, I'm looking at that goddess.

Mala:

So there are these beautiful goddesses there called the ma.

Mala:

They're 10 maas, 10 very specific goddesses.

Mala:

And it's like, you know, Cali is one of them.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Which, you know, Cali tends to scare the shit outta most people.

Mala:

Oh yeah.

Mala:

Most of us don't even know her.

Mala:

Like her forms and her names, they just completely, I gotta tell you how many

Mala:

times I'll go onto somewhat like some of these Wicken or other platforms.

Mala:

I'm not just saying Wicken, but like other platforms.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Cali statue.

Mala:

And I'm like, my dudes like, but do you understand, like, you actually

Mala:

ask the questions, like to understand what you're doing and I'll sometimes

Mala:

engage for shits and giggles.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And be like, I can talk about this and then they'll ghost me.

Mala:

Because the reality is they only want what Google's gonna give them.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

They don't actually wanna learn the, the, the, the, the burden that we are taught.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Sort of like that, that, I hate to say it, but that authentic version we're brought

Mala:

up with the things that aren't in books.

Mala:

They don't wanna learn that.

Mala:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mala:

They wanna learn what they can Google because they think that's

Mala:

gonna get them from like one to a hundred really, really quickly.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I didn't earn my master's degree like as soon as I finished high school.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

I.

Mala:

You know, 2000 and something hours or whatever the hell it was.

Mala:

I can't even remember to get my lcsw I had to study to get here.

Mala:

It, it didn't happen overnight, but I feel like even when people look

Mala:

at things like tantra and, and, and meditation kini, it's kind of like

Mala:

this big rush to get to the end.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Everybody wants to feel enlightened, but most people don't even have a fucking

Mala:

clue what enlightened feels like.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

They, they don't cause the goal, the reality is, if you were all

Mala:

your chocolates were open bitches, you wouldn't be alive anymore.

Mala:

You, that's not, that's not how it works.

Mala:

You won't be here.

Mala:

Certain ones, when they open, you lose so many things.

Mala:

Like, like I, I can only speak to myself.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

The more meditation I did over the years.

Mala:

I lost the ability to do certain things, like I can't go to certain places anymore.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I can't eat certain things anymore.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I think I meditate like three to four times a day to maintain my energy.

Mala:

I have to put up certains on this vessel to be able to go from here to here.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

You know, I did an event this morning and when I did the event, there was so

Mala:

much energy in there and there was a very conflicting energy that came in.

Mala:

All the stuff fell on top of my candle.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And of course, the stuff that fell were all like synthetic

Mala:

things that could burst to flame.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Fell the flame of my candle.

Mala:

My candle did not go out.

Mala:

It did not catch on fire.

Mala:

I just moved it, but it did it twice to me.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

Because there are things that will come for your vessel the more you elevate it.

Mala:

And those are the, and I, I, I use the word consequences loosely, but you lose so

Mala:

many things when you start to look inward.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

And a lot of people don't realize that.

Mala:

Especially when you start to like channel and you start to manifest these

Mala:

energies and, and videos when you're actually doing that Kundalini yoga,

Mala:

no, you're not walking around with your eyes shut like this, saying shit.

Mala:

Like, I see people on, on thing and they shut their eyes and I give them much

Mala:

props for wanting to have that download and say these things and God bless them.

Mala:

I, I want them to do the best version and be the best version of yourself.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Me, it's like this, as long as you're not harming somebody else or harming yourself.

Mala:

You can be batshit crazy.

Mala:

I don't care.

Mala:

You can receive messages from everybody and day grandma, I don't care.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I love to hurting another human being.

Mala:

That's when I care.

Mala:

Yeah, yeah.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

That's when that mandated reporter rages her little head.

Mala:

And, you know, I, I, I channel my inner coly and I'm like, yeah, no,

Mala:

no, Okta, you know, screening for you.

Mala:

But, but I'm, I'm mindful of when I see these things, I'm mindful of it

Mala:

and a lot of times I say nothing to it.

Mala:

I let it talk because I realize that sometimes it's

Mala:

just not worth talking about.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

It's not worth correcting.

Mala:

It's not worth giving that, because you kind of gotta face it.

Mala:

Like, I gotta, I sort of think about it like this.

Mala:

If people really wanna know, they're gonna find me.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

You know?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

But my is through those goddesses, you know, I have a very specific

Mala:

goddess that I'm aligned with.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

She has been there since my birth and, and so in, in, in Hinduism, we will

Mala:

have like an ishk, like the one we love.

Mala:

Okay, got it.

Mala:

Got it.

Mala:

One who we are in love with, and I don't mean in love with like in sexual love.

Mala:

I mean like if she rolled up here tomorrow and was like, okay, leave

Mala:

your husband, leave your children and go away, I'd be like, all

Ashley:

right, let's go.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

I understand what you mean.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Yeah.

Mala:

Everything for her, and she's the one who's given me everything I have.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

She's where my devotion shit sits.

Mala:

She's the one who I tell Yes, yes.

Mala:

She's the one that I can manifest and she can do absolutely

Mala:

amazing, beautiful things.

Mala:

She's the one that gave me my gift and that is how I move through

Mala:

this body I sit with to harness that energy and look inward.

Mala:

Do I like kini meditation a lot.

Mala:

No.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Why do I like it?

Mala:

Cause it makes me feel high and it will last sometimes.

Mala:

The longest the high has ever lasted for me, I think was like 48 hours.

Mala:

Wow.

Mala:

Okay.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And I don't, I don't, I choose not to use edible.

Mala:

I choose not to do those things because it literally feels like I drank a lot.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And I'm tipsy, but then like, I'll start saying things and I'll know

Mala:

things and it's like supersized.

Mala:

So that happens when I meditate and then I'll like go to these, I'll lose hours.

Mala:

Oh, wow.

Mala:

And hours are gone.

Mala:

For me, I always say that there's many forms and many ways of doing kini yoga.

Mala:

There are many forms and many ways of, of following the, you know, the

Mala:

tantric ways and even being ata.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And feel like at this point in my life people are gonna find what they need

Mala:

in the way that they need it, for what works for them at where their soul is at.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Their spirit is at, so I, I, I, I said, kind of always look at it that way.

Mala:

So when I see something that may not be actually correct, I always say to myself,

Mala:

because maybe they don't need the correct.

Mala:

I know nobody know, nobody can see me, but I'm bunny earing that like

Mala:

they don't maybe need the correct.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And if they correct, I believe the universe is a way of giving it to you.

Mala:

It's like that.

Mala:

What's that concept?

Mala:

When a student is ready, the teacher will arrive.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Yes, yes,

Ashley:

yes.

Mala:

I mean, this is my disclaimer.

Mala:

This is my personal opinion.

Mala:

People can choose to fight me over it.

Mala:

I'll tell them where I live.

Mala:

I have no problem taking off my earrings, getting some like, Of Vaseline

Mala:

and you know, I mean, even though my husband says I'm too old to fight

Mala:

anymore, my back is not that good.

Mala:

But I'll throw down if I have to.

Ashley:

You do what you gotta do.

Ashley:

Well, yeah, but you know what, I think it's valuable.

Ashley:

Kind of like you said, there's like people who, who bring the practices over and

Ashley:

they kind of water them down or whatever to also make them profitable, right?

Ashley:

Like people wanna make money.

Ashley:

So I kind of get it.

Ashley:

But I also don't, and that's why I wanted to ask you about it and not, because

Ashley:

like you said, you're, you're not an expert, but like 100% obviously I'm not.

Ashley:

I just wanna ask somebody who actually practices these things, cuz I was

Ashley:

like, I wanna hear it from them.

Ashley:

What it's truly about.

Ashley:

I can read, and that was part of the problem when I started to read about this.

Ashley:

I was like, I'm very confused.

Ashley:

Like I don't understand, at first was like, I thought it

Ashley:

was one thing, but it's not.

Ashley:

And I'm getting confused.

Ashley:

I was like, you know what?

Ashley:

I'm, this is what I wanna talk to her about because she's a practicing

Ashley:

it and I want people to hear that.

Ashley:

This is somebody who's practicing it and this is their experience now, I don't

Ashley:

know, it's probably not every single person's experience, but to hear , this

Ashley:

is how, how it makes sense for you.

Ashley:

This is what the practice does for you.

Ashley:

And I have heard many times, like kini yoga is like not a joke.

Ashley:

And I'm like, okay, well what's not a joke about it?

Ashley:

Like what's going on?

Ashley:

But now when you're explaining it, talking about like being

Ashley:

enlightened and all these different things, I'm like, that makes sense.

Ashley:

People don't realize, kind of like you said, like doing all this work changes

Ashley:

you, like you said, there's certain places you can't go, certain things you can't do.

Ashley:

Like doing all this work is gonna change you.

Ashley:

And a lot of people in different spiritual spaces.

Ashley:

Want spirituality to just , be a magic thing.

Mala:

Fix it.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Fix it.

Mala:

Love it.

Mala:

Want it to be like a magic pot.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

The reality is, and I always say this to people, you know

Mala:

being careful what you wish for.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

Be careful what you manifest, right?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Because there are always consequences to manifestation and

Mala:

people don't even realize that.

Mala:

Like it, however you wanna look at it.

Mala:

I mean, I, I look at people who do, and I talk to many people

Mala:

who've done Kundalini yoga.

Mala:

I'm always interested in, cause I'll always be a scholar.

Mala:

I'm always interested in Well, how did you get there?

Mala:

Yeah, yeah.

Mala:

That path.

Mala:

Cause I know what my path looks like, right?

Mala:

I found this amazing goddess who I've traveled with from birth after birth.

Mala:

And her and I have, she's taught me a lot of things.

Mala:

She's shown me a lot of things.

Mala:

A lot of the stuff that I learned, I didn't learn from books.

Mala:

I learned from her telling me.

Mala:

Right?

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

But this is just my personal experience and, and I always say to

Mala:

people, you can read a lot of stuff.

Mala:

But it's also important to talk to other people who might have that

Mala:

insight because the thing about kini that people always say is dangerous

Mala:

is when you start to do the work, stuff doesn't pop off like six, right?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And think, oh no.

Mala:

Like, it's like growing up in like Princeton and deciding that you're

Mala:

gonna like walk seven o'clock at night down, like, like Roseville and Newark.

Ashley:

Yep.

Ashley:

Hello, holy

Mala:

TaeKwonDo.

Mala:

I know.

Mala:

No, no, you're not gonna be in.

Mala:

And I think sometimes that's, that's what happens.

Mala:

But I also feel like a lot of people will do a lot of spiritual bypass.

Mala:

Girl, I feel like it's a whole other podcast.

Mala:

I'm sorry.

Mala:

I know girl,

Ashley:

we're Don't worry.

Ashley:

We'll be back to talk about this another time.

Ashley:

It's me and you.

Ashley:

Don't worry, but it's true.

Ashley:

Ah, lemme tell you, pe the the way people, and like, we're gonna

Ashley:

move on in a minute, but like, she just keeps talking Mala girl.

Ashley:

The way people like want to just be like, oh, I did a little, and okay everybody,

Ashley:

please, I'm not shitting on reiki.

Ashley:

Please don't, don't, don't say I am, I'm nuts.

Ashley:

But the way people say, well I did a little reiki, so I guess I'm good now.

Ashley:

I'm like, girl, I heard you had all these trauma in your childhood.

Ashley:

Now you telling me you went to two sessions of breaking it?

Ashley:

You think you fine?

Ashley:

Okay, wait a week.

Ashley:

Wait, wait a week.

Ashley:

People, they just wanna say, well no, it's fine.

Ashley:

I did a little bit of this.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

And I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I'm saying you have to, when you

Ashley:

really start to, and this happens, I'm sure you see this in therapy too.

Ashley:

And I think this is a lot of things sometimes people don't talk about.

Ashley:

That bothers me.

Ashley:

When people talk about therapy, you have to move through your trauma.

Ashley:

You cannot just be like, well, I'm going to therapy.

Ashley:

I know so many people say, well, I'm going, I'm going, okay.

Ashley:

But as soon as your therapist starts talking about your trauma, I want you

Ashley:

to talk about it and move through it.

Ashley:

Aw man.

Ashley:

I don't think it's for me.

Ashley:

What do you mean?

Mala:

That happens all the time.

Mala:

I see stuff and I'm like, oh, so when we stop, like all the fluff and

Mala:

we gotta like the real, real shit.

Mala:

You don't have time to make your appointment anymore.

Mala:

Hmm.

Mala:

I know you, you verbalize you wanna do the work, but the work

Mala:

is hard and the reality is yes.

Mala:

Even when I had to work through my own trauma story and I had to

Mala:

work through my own stuff, yes.

Mala:

It took a lot of therapists for me to get there.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Lot coping skills for me to get there.

Mala:

Took a lot of understanding for me to be.

Mala:

You know, 43 years old and be able to now look at like, you know, being molested.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Going through a rape, like being homeless and pregnant, living on the street.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I have to really look back at all of that and look at it with gratitude.

Mala:

When I tell people I can look back at my life with gratitude, they're

Mala:

like, are you outta your fucking mind?

Mala:

Like, how do you look at those bad things happening to you, you know, as a child

Mala:

or those bad things happening to you at like 20, 21 years old with gratitude.

Mala:

And I tell them the same thing.

Mala:

Like, I've reached this place where I don't consider myself enlightened,

Mala:

but I consider myself informed.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

And as I have become more informed, I have realized my realizations

Mala:

are that no bitches, I don't wanna redo this life again.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I don't wanna go down this path again, that whatever I had happen to

Mala:

this vessel in this birth, there's a good chance I did that shit to

Mala:

somebody else and another birth.

Mala:

And I have for it in this lifetime.

Mala:

I believe in reincarnation.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I believe that, you know, People do shit to other people and

Mala:

then you gotta reap that shit.

Mala:

People think karma's instant.

Mala:

It's not all always instant.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

It can take lifetime before it comes back.

Mala:

And I accept for me, and this is personally mm-hmm.

Mala:

Passionate about it, you can accept for me that the, that has

Mala:

happened in my life are blessing.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

They me to be the woman I am today.

Mala:

And I wouldn't change it.

Mala:

Even the worst of the worst.

Mala:

I mean, I've gone through domestic violence.

Mala:

I will not change that for nobody.

Mala:

Mm.

Mala:

I realize that I have to look at those things with gratitude.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And acceptance.

Mala:

I have no desire to walk this path again and do the same

Mala:

bullshit over and over again.

Mala:

Mm.

Mala:

I have no desire for enlightenment either.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

And I that all the time.

Mala:

Like, I meditate and they're like, oh, don't you wanna get enlightened?

Mala:

Hell no.

Mala:

I don't wanna be enlightened.

Mala:

I wanna reach that point where I'm just good, good, good.

Mala:

But I don't wanna, I wanna keep coming back.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Why?

Mala:

Because I like being the other, I like the feeling of.

Mala:

Spiritual energy.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

I like that relationship.

Mala:

I like human beings.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I love humans.

Mala:

I love them in all.

Mala:

They're good.

Mala:

They're bad.

Mala:

They're ugly.

Mala:

I love it all because once you can really look at them and understand them and

Mala:

love them, even for all they are and they aren't, you come to this realization

Mala:

that you don't really want to be nothing.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

You don't really want to, you know, in in, in, in Buddhism they say

Mala:

there's nirvana, it's extinction.

Mala:

I extinct, I'm OK with feeling pain because I know what love will feel like.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

The love, chaos and I'm okay with feeling chaos.

Mala:

Cause peace will be able to be harnessed.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

I'm okay with this, this dance that we have in life.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Maybe everybody might not be there and I'm okay with helping you on

Mala:

that journey, but I'm okay with me.

Mala:

Yeah.

Ashley:

Ooh.

Ashley:

Okay, girl.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

The, that's awesome.

Ashley:

You're so cool.

Ashley:

Okay, so you're just awesome.

Ashley:

All right, well, we could talk about this forever and we might talk about

Ashley:

this again sometime, but we're gonna go onto our story because a lot of

Ashley:

what you just talked about has to do with the story I'm gonna tell today.

Ashley:

So, Guys, if you don't know that this is a, a podcast where I tell stories.

Ashley:

So we're gonna tell a story about a woman.

Ashley:

I don't know if you've ever heard of this woman.

Ashley:

Her name is Fullon De.

Ashley:

Have you ever heard of her?

Ashley:

All right.

Ashley:

Let me tell you this story of Fullon, cuz this story is insane

Ashley:

and it's a lot about resilience.

Ashley:

Like this woman is literally the definition of resilience.

Ashley:

It's insane.

Ashley:

So this is, okay.

Ashley:

A trigger warning for unfortunately a lot of sexual assault and violence.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

So just letting everybody know and murder and just a lot.

Ashley:

There's a book called Rejected Princesses that I'm kind of obsessed with.

Ashley:

Probably gonna use this book a lot.

Ashley:

But there was a guy who had a blog and he made different stories about

Ashley:

different women who, and he called them rejected princesses cuz they would

Ashley:

never be able to be Disney princesses.

Ashley:

But their stories are super important, so, The first story we have to,

Ashley:

well, the story we have today is fu de So she is a woman and she was

Ashley:

born in I'm not gonna say this right guys, but I'm sorry, U PR India.

Ashley:

This is in Northern India, and she was in a lower cast.

Ashley:

If you do not know about the Indian caste system, you are f feel

Ashley:

free to Google it and learn it.

Ashley:

We don't have time to talk about that.

Ashley:

It's a whole thing.

Ashley:

It's a whole thing guys.

Ashley:

She was born into a lower cast which means she was lower on like the social level.

Ashley:

Her family was pretty poor.

Ashley:

Her dad was in the fishermen, she had a, they had a small farm, but

Ashley:

they were pretty poor then and, So people treated them pretty bad.

Ashley:

The only people who treated Fullon well is her own family.

Ashley:

So, but even some members of her own family didn't treat her well.

Ashley:

And that's when we get to talk about her bitch ass cousin.

Ashley:

His name was Miladin and he's an asshole.

Ashley:

You'll see he gets worse.

Ashley:

So Miladin and his dad, who's Fullon Fullan's dad's brother, her uncle they

Ashley:

tried to take some of the land from Fullan's dad and they basically stole it.

Ashley:

So Fullan from the time she was little, she was very smart.

Ashley:

Her and her sister, they decided to hold a protest where they went and

Ashley:

sat on the land that the, her uncle had stolen and ate all the chickpeas

Ashley:

because they were like, screw you, we're gonna eat our own damn chickpeas

Ashley:

cuz you're stole up for my dad.

Ashley:

Now they considered full on in the town to be a problem because she

Ashley:

was doing this She wasn't a problem.

Ashley:

She was just sticking up for her family.

Ashley:

So anyway, everybody was like, you gotta get this girl married off.

Ashley:

She's a problem, she's a troublemaker.

Ashley:

So our family was poor.

Ashley:

Obviously they didn't have a lot of money, so they thought, okay, let's just do it.

Ashley:

So they married her off.

Ashley:

She's 12 at this point.

Ashley:

No, she's 11, excuse me.

Ashley:

And they married her off to this 33 year old guy and it was for a little bit of

Ashley:

money and a cow and a couple other things.

Ashley:

Again, guys, her family was really poor.

Ashley:

So for them, this was kind of the situation that they had to do.

Ashley:

So she's married to this 33 year old guy, she's 11.

Ashley:

He is assaulting her all the time.

Ashley:

He's physically assaulting her, sexually, assaulting her.

Ashley:

Things are bad for full on.

Ashley:

So she decides, I gotta get outta here, I gotta go home.

Ashley:

She goes home.

Ashley:

Her family is super embarrassed.

Ashley:

This is a very embarrassing thing at this point.

Ashley:

In history and in her culture, this is bad.

Ashley:

You're not supposed to leave.

Ashley:

Your husband, doesn't matter what's going on.

Ashley:

So her family's like, look, if you don't go back to him, the only thing

Ashley:

you need to do is you're probably gonna have to go kill yourself.

Ashley:

Yep.

Ashley:

So sh yeah.

Ashley:

So she's like don't really wanna do that.

Ashley:

So she's like, oh, what do I do?

Ashley:

So boom on was like, all right, I don't wanna do this.

Ashley:

So she went to the cops and she's like, police, please help me.

Ashley:

These my parents are telling me I gotta kill myself, but my husband

Ashley:

was beating the crap outta me, and I really don't wanna go do that.

Ashley:

What do I do?

Ashley:

What did the police do?

Ashley:

They sexually assaulted her and it was really bad for her.

Ashley:

Then her asshole cousin took a paper.

Ashley:

Meanwhile, her parents were illiterate.

Ashley:

They were from a poor area, they didn't go to school and made him sign it.

Ashley:

They were like, oh, we'll get Fullon to go back, but you

Ashley:

just have to sign this paper.

Ashley:

And her family didn't really know what the paper was for, but they just

Ashley:

thought, okay, this is something good.

Ashley:

So they signed it, which was signing away their land officially.

Ashley:

And they were like, okay.

Ashley:

And then this guy, her cousin, basically went and got the husband,

Ashley:

got the husband to take Fullon back.

Ashley:

At this point, Fullan's husband took a second wife.

Ashley:

So now Fullan's husband's treating her bad and this other

Ashley:

wife is treating her terribly.

Ashley:

So now she's got two people beating the crap out of her and she decides once again

Ashley:

to leave cuz she can't do this anymore.

Ashley:

So she gets back home and her family again is like, full on girl,

Ashley:

you've gotta stop coming here.

Ashley:

But she doesn't know what to do and she remembers that it's her cousin who's the

Ashley:

one who kind of is doing this to her.

Ashley:

So she goes and she starts throwing rocks at him and then he reports

Ashley:

her to the police again and.

Ashley:

The police are like, okay, well we don't know what to do this time with this girl.

Ashley:

She's a mess.

Ashley:

So what does her cousin do?

Ashley:

He's like, I'm gonna get her kidnapped.

Ashley:

So he hires a bunch of thugs to kidnap fu on, and they do.

Ashley:

And surprisingly, guys, this is the point of the story where things actually

Ashley:

start to get a little better for, so yeah, it's like, ooh, it's been rough.

Ashley:

Yeah, I think it's starting to get a little better.

Ashley:

So she gets kidnapped by this group, and the guy who is second in command,

Ashley:

his name is Vikram, we love Vikram.

Ashley:

Vikram becomes actually really good friends with Fon.

Ashley:

And he's like, girl, let me help you out here.

Ashley:

These people are crazy.

Ashley:

And she's like, okay.

Ashley:

But They kept, they decided that the leader of the gang decided that he

Ashley:

wanted to sexually assault fool on.

Ashley:

And Vikram found out about this and Vikram was not having

Ashley:

anybody mess with his bestie.

Ashley:

So he killed the leader of the gang.

Ashley:

And Vikram goes to fool on and he's like, fool on.

Ashley:

I killed that guy cuz he was gonna try to mess with you.

Ashley:

And also just wanna let you know I'm in love with you.

Ashley:

But, but if you don't have those feelings for me, it's cool.

Ashley:

I just wanna tell you.

Ashley:

And she's like, okay Vic, I'm, that's cool.

Ashley:

Like, I don't have those feelings for you, but , we could still be besties.

Ashley:

And he's like, bet that's great.

Ashley:

So they like, so they become best friends and they become the leaders of the gang.

Ashley:

So Fullon little Fullon is running around here with FRO and a bunch of these other

Ashley:

dudes messing places up to the point.

Ashley:

Where people were just so afraid of her.

Ashley:

People thought she was the reincarnation of the goddess

Ashley:

Durga because she was so fierce.

Ashley:

If you guys look up Durga on the internet, you'll see a goddess

Ashley:

who has 10 arms, sometimes eight.

Ashley:

She is, now, I'm gonna get this a little wrong, so don't quote me,

Ashley:

but her and Cali are like, one is reincarnation of the other.

Ashley:

So they're somewhat similar, but not, they're different but not okay.

Ashley:

So just know that Durga is like a big mother of all.

Ashley:

She's a fierce woman.

Ashley:

And I also wanna mention, cuz we talked, you talked about this

Ashley:

before we talked about Collie.

Ashley:

Again, I'm no Collie scholar, but I remember I took a religion class in

Ashley:

college and we learned about Collie.

Ashley:

You know, you see her, she looks kind of scary.

Ashley:

She's got her tongue usually stuck out.

Ashley:

And she's got a, a dead man's head in one of her arms and

Ashley:

she wears a necklace of skulls.

Ashley:

But Collie is also called Kali Ma.

Ashley:

Because she's a mother.

Ashley:

Because actually, if you think about it, she's so fierce

Ashley:

because she's defending people.

Ashley:

She's not just going out hurting anybody for no reason.

Ashley:

Collie is the kind, she cares about her.

Ashley:

People just remember that, and that is the same situation with Durga.

Ashley:

She cares about her people.

Ashley:

Will she fuck you up if

Mala:

she needs to?

Mala:

Yeah.

Ashley:

but it's because it's outta love.

Ashley:

This is, these are two loving goddesses

Ashley:

outta, she's like, oh, don't mess with my kids though.

Ashley:

Like, I don't have time for that.

Ashley:

Okay, so back to our story now.

Ashley:

So Fon and Vikram are running around, you know, they're robbing

Ashley:

trains, they're kidnapping people but they're usually robbing the

Ashley:

poor, I mean, robbing the rich.

Ashley:

Like they're not just kidnapping anybody.

Ashley:

Not that that's great, but I'm just saying that's what's going on.

Ashley:

So Fu Lon in the meantime, she's like, oh, remember that ex-husband who I hate?

Ashley:

Can we give him a visit?

Ashley:

And Vikram's like, yep.

Ashley:

So they go to the ex-husband and she ends up beating the crap outta him.

Ashley:

And she actually mutilates his another regions because she's like, how dare you?

Ashley:

So then she keeps going and she goes to the police officers who decided

Ashley:

that they were going to assault her when she tried to report her

Ashley:

crime, and she kills one of them.

Ashley:

So now, oh, the other thing guys, I didn't mention that the police officers had done

Ashley:

was that when she went home and sh after they assaulted her, they put out all over

Ashley:

the village that Fullon was a prostitute.

Ashley:

So all these dudes kept coming to her house trying to solicit her services to

Ashley:

the point where she had to start walking around with a stick to beat men off, like,

Ashley:

because they were bothering her so much.

Ashley:

So that's another reason.

Ashley:

So she goes and she kills one of these officers.

Ashley:

And then again, so people thought she was literally the reincarnation of

Ashley:

Durga and they were petrified of her.

Ashley:

So word spread all the way to her stupid cousin Myland in.

Ashley:

He found out that like, Ooh, people, you know, this is my image in my head,

Ashley:

Mylan's walking down the road with his dumb ass, and he sees two people talking

Ashley:

and he hears fool saying, he's like, excuse me, you're talking about fool de.

Ashley:

And they're like, boy,

Ashley:

they were like, I'm telling you, I lon, she's not playing any games.

Ashley:

And if she said, this is my whole scene in my head, somebody was

Ashley:

like, I heard that they said your name and she's coming for you.

Ashley:

Mila Den is now scared.

Ashley:

He is frightened.

Ashley:

So when he finds out like fu lawn's around, he gets himself together, he puts

Ashley:

on a bunch of rags and he walks over to Ula and he is like, ULA, I'm so sorry

Ashley:

for like marrying you off to a rapist.

Ashley:

Oh.

Ashley:

And tries to give her like a little bit of money and Ula was

Ashley:

like, get the fuck away from me.

Ashley:

So her family, the only reason Foodland didn't kill him that day that she saw

Ashley:

him was because Vicram, her bestie and her family begged her not to.

Ashley:

They're like, please don't kill him.

Ashley:

Like you just have to try.

Ashley:

And forgive him.

Ashley:

So Fullon was like, you know what?

Ashley:

Fine, because of you guys, I'm not gonna kill him.

Ashley:

So she walks away from that situation and then at that point she's like, you

Ashley:

know who I think I am in love with Vikram and Vikram's like, Ooh, you like me?

Ashley:

Great.

Ashley:

She caught feelings.

Ashley:

So her and Vikram get married and it's great and everybody's super

Ashley:

happy and we love, we love Vikram.

Ashley:

He's great.

Ashley:

So, you know, he had so much respect for her and that's why we love it.

Ashley:

So, unfortunately this is not the end of the story.

Ashley:

This is a little bit more to go.

Ashley:

So, so Fullam was super happy with Vikram.

Ashley:

Everything's okay.

Ashley:

She kind of is like smile, like chilling out in from the gang.

Ashley:

She's not doing so much gang stuff anymore.

Ashley:

She's, relaxed a little bit, but then one day in the middle of the night,

Ashley:

Fullon, she's getting ready for bed.

Ashley:

Vikram's already asleep.

Ashley:

She gets to go to sleep.

Ashley:

She wakes up in the middle of the night, she hears some noise.

Ashley:

Turns around, somebody shot Vikram, poor Vikram has died.

Ashley:

Now, who shot Vikram?

Ashley:

There's two members who are used to be in her gang, Sriram and Lala Ram.

Ashley:

So their two brothers.

Ashley:

And they found out about Vikram killing the leader of the gang before.

Ashley:

And that full on and Vikram were at the head of the gang now.

Ashley:

And they thought because that Lon and Vikram were in a lower

Ashley:

cast than the two of them, they shouldn't be at the head of gang.

Ashley:

So, and also they wanted to get revenge on Vikram, so they're

Ashley:

like, we're gonna shoot Vikram.

Ashley:

Siam and Lala Ram then go and they kidnap fu after they shot Vicram.

Ashley:

Now what they do is they blindfold.

Ashley:

Lon and they bring them back to their village.

Ashley:

It's called Beay.

Ashley:

I hope I say this right, BEAY.

Ashley:

And they sexually assault her for days and days and days.

Ashley:

A whole bunch of people, they make her walk around this village naked in the

Ashley:

middle of the day, with WA carrying water back and forth, kicking her, just

Ashley:

treating her like absolute garbage.

Ashley:

This goes on for a few weeks until there's an elderly priest in the

Ashley:

village who sees all this happening and he helps fu on get away.

Ashley:

So she runs into the woods, she flees, and in the meantime, s sh

Ashley:

Sri Rom and Lala Ram find out that this guy helped and they kill him.

Ashley:

So then seven months later, a small group of people dress as officers enter bmi and

Ashley:

they round up everybody in the town, all the men, and they tell them, Attention.

Ashley:

Attention, goodbye.

Ashley:

We are here to find Sriram and Lara and if y'all don't get him out here

Ashley:

right now, I'm killing all y'all.

Ashley:

So it's Fullon and people are shocked.

Ashley:

They think Fullon is dead because she was, you know, she got messed up.

Ashley:

They think she's dead.

Ashley:

Nope.

Ashley:

She came back cuz she's never dying.

Ashley:

Guys.

Ashley:

Like she's out here like this woman, I'm telling you, when I say

Ashley:

resilient, this woman is resilient.

Ashley:

So she comes out and she's like, no, no, no.

Ashley:

Get them out here right now.

Ashley:

So what, you know, you're wondering where has she been for seven months?

Ashley:

Oh girl, she's been busy.

Ashley:

She's been up and down small villages all over India.

Ashley:

Literally terrorizing bad people.

Ashley:

Anybody she thought was bad or mean, she was just, Messing them

Ashley:

up beating them up, cutting off people's noses, castrating, rapists.

Ashley:

She was letting out women who were in some type of bad situation or

Ashley:

being beaten by their husband.

Ashley:

She was helping free them.

Ashley:

This is what she's been doing the whole time again, of why everyone

Ashley:

thought she was a reincarnation of durga because nobody could catch her.

Ashley:

She was doing all of this stuff, protecting all these women and

Ashley:

nobody could get a picture with her.

Ashley:

Literally, people could not get a picture of this woman.

Ashley:

So they didn't know.

Ashley:

She was also very mysterious.

Ashley:

So she's running around.

Ashley:

So then, anyway, so she gets to bed by and she's looking for these rom

Ashley:

brothers and nobody would produce 'em.

Ashley:

So she ends up killing 22 dudes in this village to the point where

Ashley:

the army had to get involved.

Ashley:

Cuz they're like, okay, okay, okay, this is too much.

Ashley:

This woman can't be doing all this.

Ashley:

Eventually stream rom he gets They find out that him and his

Ashley:

brother had gotten into fight and killed and killed each other.

Ashley:

I think the two of them ended up killing each other.

Ashley:

So once Fullon deci realized that they were both dead, and this was kind of her

Ashley:

whole thing, that she was looking for them, that's why she was doing all this.

Ashley:

She negotiated her surrender and she went to jail.

Ashley:

She ended up going to jail for 11 years.

Ashley:

She admitted what she did and she's like, yeah, I killed all these

Ashley:

people, but let me tell you something.

Ashley:

Okay.

Ashley:

When Fu surrendered herself, 8,000 people were cheering for her.

Ashley:

She was 19 people.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

People were cheering like, this woman is out here.

Ashley:

Like, all this injustice.

Ashley:

And, yeah, it's bad, but you did, don't get wrong.

Ashley:

You shouldn't probably murder people, but , She experienced all this

Ashley:

injustice and she was just trying to help other people and help herself.

Ashley:

So she's doing the best she could for herself.

Ashley:

All right, so she surrendered 11 years.

Ashley:

She was in jail.

Ashley:

After she got outta jail, she was like, Hmm, you know, I've had a lot of time to

Ashley:

think about what I did, and I know it's wrong, but I've also had a lot of time to

Ashley:

realize how bad it is for poor young women like me, and I don't think that's fair.

Ashley:

I'm gonna run for office.

Ashley:

So she, so she ran for a public office.

Ashley:

She became, I'm not sure if it's like I think it's a representative of some type.

Ashley:

She became a representative of her area and.

Ashley:

She won by a landslide.

Ashley:

She decided to really speak out for young women and poor people in general.

Ashley:

She did all this work to try to help all of them and people loved her.

Ashley:

After everything she did, people loved her.

Ashley:

Like she was one of the only people out here speaking out like, this isn't okay.

Ashley:

Like this is happening in all these villages, people are

Ashley:

discarding these poor girls because they're poor and that's not fair.

Ashley:

Like nobody decided to be born like this.

Ashley:

They're just young girls and guys, remember this whole

Ashley:

time, fool Lion can't read.

Ashley:

She's, she never went to school and she went through all this trauma and

Ashley:

she still accomplished so, so much.

Ashley:

So unfortunately, after five years in office, Fullon was gunned down in

Ashley:

revenge for that massacre that she did what they call the bed my massacre,

Ashley:

where she killed those 22 people.

Ashley:

But they found the people who did it, one of the three killers

Ashley:

who killed her in 2014, they put her them in jail for her life.

Ashley:

So people asked, I'm just gonna finish with a little quote from

Ashley:

Fullon, cuz in this book they say many journalists who the last couple years

Ashley:

asked her like, about her history and they kind of attacked her like,

Ashley:

well, you did all these bad things.

Ashley:

Like, what, what do you think?

Ashley:

Like, how do you think people should forgive you?

Ashley:

But what she said was, this is Fullon.

Ashley:

Do you have any idea what it's like to live in a village in

Ashley:

India, what you call rape?

Ashley:

That thing that happens to poor women in villages every day, it is

Ashley:

assumed that the daughters of the poor are for the use of the rich.

Ashley:

They assume that their property in the villages, the poor have no toilets.

Ashley:

So we must go in the fields and the moments we arrive, the rich le there.

Ashley:

We can't cut grass or tend to our crops without being accosted by them.

Ashley:

We are the property of the rich.

Ashley:

They won't let us live in peace.

Ashley:

You'll never understand what kind of humiliation this is.

Ashley:

If they wanna rape us to molest us and our families object, they'll just

Ashley:

rape us in front of our families.

Ashley:

So Food Lion just makes the point that like, don't judge me for what I did

Ashley:

when these people are treating us so bad.

Ashley:

I guess she's kind of the kind of figure, you don't know if you wanna love Fullon

Ashley:

or hate Fullon, but I'm gonna choose to.

Ashley:

To say that Fuller is a complex person who went through a lot, and,

Ashley:

I think she's somebody to be admired to, to have gone through all these

Ashley:

beau these things and then come out of it being like, you know what?

Ashley:

I'm still gonna help other people.

Ashley:

That's gonna be what I do.

Ashley:

She went to jail for 11 years, like that's a long time.

Ashley:

And she still was like, I'm gonna help everybody I can.

Ashley:

And she did.

Ashley:

And people really like her.

Ashley:

And to this day, she's seen as somebody who, you know, for her

Ashley:

area did a really good job for them.

Ashley:

So that's the story of Full on de the one who was so, she, and

Ashley:

she didn't look like a big lady.

Ashley:

She was tiny guys.

Ashley:

People were terrified.

Ashley:

Like, so that's the story of Fullon.

Ashley:

And I hope if you want, we'll add some links, like I said in

Ashley:

the show notes so everybody can read a little bit more about her.

Ashley:

But she's a pretty interesting character.

Ashley:

So that's

Mala:

the Indian movie about her too, like Yes.

Mala:

They made a, like that's just your whole storytelling, just

Mala:

for like a Bollywood like.

Mala:

Like a Bollywood movie.

Mala:

I was waiting for you to start singing at some point and just like

Mala:

thinking that there's going be a song and dance number any point now.

Mala:

And yes, it's an extremely serious topic and I don't, I'm not making fun

Mala:

of it, but I think that's the beautiful part of, of the Indian culture.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Just Indians.

Mala:

I mean, you've seen this dynamic in, in, in so many cultures.

Mala:

I mean Oh yeah.

Mala:

Take her, put her in Africa and it'll be the same story.

Mala:

Exactly.

Ashley:

Women all over the world.

Ashley:

This happens to, you

Mala:

know, Hispanic culture, you name it, it is the theme.

Mala:

It's America.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

God yes.

Mala:

Taker.

Mala:

And you put her anywhere.

Mala:

And I think that's just such, IM gonna have to watch the movie.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

I might, I might, I might read the notes version now since you've through but wow.

Mala:

And you know what's really sad?

Mala:

This still happens today.

Ashley:

I know that's the end of the part about it is , again,

Ashley:

like you said, it's not, it has, honestly, this story has nothing to

Ashley:

do with the fact that she's Indian.

Ashley:

Not at all.

Ashley:

Just the fact that she was a woman who was from an era, and this is

Ashley:

like society all over the world.

Ashley:

People who have less are always, are a lot always treated worse.

Ashley:

She didn't choose to be born into a poor family.

Ashley:

It has nothing to do with her, you know?

Ashley:

But then she had all these terrible things happen to her and I just, when

Ashley:

I read this story the first time, whenever heard of her, I couldn't be

Ashley:

like, there's some things, and I'm sure you see this like a lot, but people go

Ashley:

through, so, okay, I'm getting jumbled up.

Ashley:

So I do a grief group, I facilitate a grief group and we

Ashley:

talk a lot about resilience and meaning making of your grief.

Ashley:

So when I saw this, she's literally the definition of

Ashley:

meaning making and resilience.

Ashley:

This woman has gone through stuff that a lot of us will never go through.

Ashley:

The amount of.

Ashley:

Trauma, you know what I mean?

Ashley:

And this, I'm sure she wasn't going to therapy and everything, you know, she

Ashley:

was just like dealing with this way.

Ashley:

And then also she killed people, which is also traumatic, even though she did it.

Ashley:

But it's still a problem.

Ashley:

Anyway, the fact that this woman made so much of her life, you know,

Ashley:

when people would be like, well, Shayna go to college and shit her.

Ashley:

No, she didn't.

Ashley:

She couldn't read, but she didn't care.

Ashley:

Like had nothing to do with it.

Ashley:

She's obviously intelligent enough to realize that everything that

Ashley:

was being done to her was wrong and I'm gonna stand up for myself.

Ashley:

And then she ended upstanding for other people.

Ashley:

And I just think what a beautiful person to not just think , oh my God, all

Ashley:

these terrible things happened to me.

Ashley:

No, she made meaning of her life no matter what.

Ashley:

So I just, I love it.

Mala:

Beautiful.

Mala:

And it's women like that, that really emphasize or

Mala:

really stand for that village.

Mala:

She's the village, right?

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

And, and what she did representing, you know, the, the specific cast

Mala:

in that, those lower casts in her village is a testimony to what women

Mala:

continue to do throughout the world.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

And, and everything always goes back to, I hate to say it, but everything

Mala:

always goes back to my cook up.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

Cook up.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

Nice.

Mala:

And Cause it's messed up.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

And it doesn't make sense and it's not gonna be in some

Mala:

culinary book as perfection.

Mala:

Yes.

Mala:

You know just like, we're not gonna be in some book, as you know,

Mala:

they're not gonna look at perfection and see our, our picture there.

Mala:

Picture there.

Mala:

But she is imperfectly perfect.

Mala:

Hello?

Mala:

And the fact that she's.

Mala:

She's done this.

Mala:

I mean, sadly, like I said, this is the story of many women and this is the

Mala:

story that continues to ha a plague art universe, as long as there are penises

Mala:

and ignorance and, you know, women who support those penises to do these things.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Cause I'm not gonna pretend, I'm not gonna pretend they're not females out

Mala:

there that, you know, support idiots.

Mala:

There are, mm-hmm.

Mala:

There are.

Mala:

We'll continue to have these things happen to our daughters

Mala:

and our sisters and, and men too.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Right.

Mala:

I'm gonna take that away.

Mala:

There are males who are sexual, molested, abused, and mm-hmm.

Mala:

Awful things happen.

Mala:

I mean, think of the amount of people that are trafficked.

Mala:

Oh, terrible, terrible, terrible.

Mala:

But that was definitely a beautiful story.

Ashley:

Thank you for sharing.

Ashley:

No problem.

Ashley:

And oh, quick note about the movie.

Ashley:

So I think in 2004 they made a movie and she apparently did not like it.

Ashley:

She saw, I saw an interview with her.

Ashley:

She's like, I asked them to take four scenes out and I think there were some of

Ashley:

the scenes where she was being sexually assaulted and she didn't want that on

Ashley:

the screen and they didn't take 'em out and she was kind of upset about it, but

Ashley:

she was like, I literally asked them to take out four scenes and they didn't.

Ashley:

So I actually hate this movie and I don't think anyone should go see it.

Ashley:

Fullan was a very strong woman.

Ashley:

She had some strong opinions, but yeah, so I've never seen the movie,

Ashley:

but that's what she said about it.

Ashley:

I watched an interview with her.

Ashley:

But yeah.

Ashley:

But thank you so much, Mala, for being here.

Mala:

Thank, thank you for me.

Mala:

I really love being able to talk about myself.

Mala:

Yes, really good right now.

Mala:

Thank you.

Mala:

You know, and so all the, the haters and naysayers are gonna come back and

Mala:

be like, that bitch don't know nothing.

Mala:

Nope.

Mala:

I don't know anything.

Mala:

I know nothing.

Mala:

I probably never will know anything.

Mala:

And I'm completely content with that because I can still go to sleep

Mala:

every night being content with who I.

Ashley:

This is what I'm saying.

Ashley:

This podcast is not a podcast for experts.

Ashley:

I don't want people to be here.

Ashley:

Like, oh no, we're just talking about shared experiences and

Ashley:

that's the world, and that's how we relate better to each other.

Ashley:

You know?

Ashley:

That's, that's why I'm glad you're talking about Kini.

Ashley:

I was like, now I kind of understand it.

Ashley:

I don't, I read so many scholarly articles.

Ashley:

I don't get it.

Ashley:

Like, but when you start talking about it, I was like, girl, I

Ashley:

understand, like, somewhat now.

Ashley:

And that's what I think is so much more valuable when you

Ashley:

hear it from somebody like that.

Ashley:

But okay, so Mala, I want you to tell us, if you're, if there anything you wanna

Ashley:

talk about, like plug where we can find you on the internet and things like that.

Ashley:

You go ahead.

Mala:

My goodness.

Mala:

I totally wasn't prepared for that, but here I go.

Mala:

You can find me on my halfs Instagram disclaimer.

Mala:

Always this I tell, I not.

Mala:

Social media.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I, I feel like it's outta my generation and I try so hard to like, remember

Mala:

content, content, content, and I fall on a rabbit hole and then I say, fuck

Mala:

it, I'm not gonna do content anymore.

Mala:

So if I did have to tell anybody anything about me, is that my social

Mala:

media clinician with a cauldron legacy counseling, which is my psychotherapy

Mala:

company, best places to find me.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

What am I, well, the reality is I've finally figured out what I

Mala:

am like, like maybe 48 hours ago.

Mala:

I'm still questioning it, but I, I like to think of myself as a psychotherapist slash

Mala:

life coach who sees dead people mm-hmm.

Mala:

Your past lives which I use all of that stuff to be able

Mala:

to kind of help you move both.

Mala:

So I'm always saying to people, and I don't market a lot of it because

Mala:

I say to people, you want me?

Mala:

You're gonna find me.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

And when you find me, I'm gonna do my best to help you, because I don't

Mala:

wanna just tell you, oh, I see your grandmother, or, oh, your, your great

Mala:

grand oh, grandfather's coming through.

Mala:

Oh, in your past life you were murdered.

Mala:

Like, I don't wanna just tell you that.

Mala:

I wanna tell you how it came through this birth.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

How that makes sense for you as a human being and how do we keep moving forward?

Mala:

Mm.

Mala:

I'm not gonna ever lie to anybody and say how I see every

Mala:

single life you've ever had.

Mala:

No.

Mala:

For some reason I can only see whatever's bothering you in this lifetime.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Very specific.

Mala:

Like, I will see trauma through lifetime.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I dunno why I wish I could see the lovey dovey fancy, nice, kind stuff.

Mala:

I don't see that shit.

Mala:

I see the stuff where it started, I bring you to right now, and then I show,

Mala:

we talk about how it's manifesting.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

I think that's why the clinician on the cauldron makes so much sense to me.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Because cauldrons are found all over the world.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

It's not just Wiccan.

Mala:

Mm-hmm.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

Have those pots everywhere, right?

Mala:

Oh yeah.

Mala:

And if I want anybody to get anything out of this is that I am authentically myself.

Mala:

I am not an expert in anything beyond Mala.

Mala:

Yeah.

Mala:

I am an expert on who I am and what I am, but I have a lot to give and I'm

Mala:

willing to teach and help anyone who's willing to make a phone call or reach out.

Ashley:

Yes.

Ashley:

Okay, everybody.

Ashley:

So I'm gonna put all of Marla's information down so you'll be able to

Ashley:

find her be able to visit her website.

Ashley:

You'll be able to find her on her, as she said, half-ass Instagram,

Ashley:

but we love a half-ass Instagram queen over here, so it's fine.

Ashley:

And this has just been so fun.

Ashley:

Thank you so much for talking and explaining things.

Ashley:

This has been great.

Ashley:

So okay guys, so again, I'm gonna plug myself again cuz what else would I do?

Ashley:

You can listen to you can listen to this on any channel, any oh

Ashley:

God, platform, God, I can't think.

Ashley:

Apple Podcast, Spotify, whatever.

Ashley:

Please give us a five star rating if you like this show.

Ashley:

If you have any questions, any comments, any constructive critiques, please email

Ashley:

me at dine with the divine pod gmail.com.

Ashley:

And if you wanna follow me, Ashley, you can follow me at sankofa hs.

Ashley:

So that's S A N K O F.

Ashley:

A h s.

Ashley:

That's my name on Instagram and on Facebook, I'm Sankofa Healing Sanctuary.

Ashley:

So again, thank you guys so much and we thank Mala for being here.

Ashley:

She's been such an awesome guest.

Ashley:

Yes, and I will see everybody next week.

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About the Podcast

Dine with the Divine
A slice of history, a handful of mythology, a dash of magic, warmed by ancestors.
Some of the best stories are told at the dinner table with a delicious meal and good company. Dine with the Divine is a one stop shop if you crave conversations of mythology, magic, history and culture! Once a week, Ashley and a guest honor gods, sages, saints and iconic figures through storytelling, food, and drink. In the words of a Mexican proverb, "Conversation is food for the soul." Pull up a chair and come dine with us!
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About your host

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Ashley Oppon

Ashley is a Shamanic Practitioner who loves to talk mythology, religion and history, especially is it's over brunch.